[lohengramm]

> Solipsistic professional existence in a largely solipsistic and male-dominated profession. That's a very isolating existence and full of wrong turns unless you make strong, proactive efforts to stay in healthy social circles, which the average mid-20s person isn't going to be scrupulously careful about doing. It's very easy to start pulling dating partners from /dev/urandom, particularly amidst the loneliness and angst that eventually catches up to you.

That's exactly how I messed up my own life.

[abalashov]

And that's how I messed up mine. Profoundly. I suspect it happens to tech people far more than is discussed, as I've seen this antipattern a number of times in lives other than my own.

[lohengramm]

I am pretty sure it does.

I also have seen this happen with others, and have met girls who were able to recognize the "depressed and lonely programmer" pattern themselves through many similar dates (of course over dating apps) they had.

Also, it seems only logical that a totally male-dominated lonely and addictive profession that usually encourages and/or requires a lot of dedication even outside of worktime would produce a bunch of solitary men. (And maybe _attract_ a bunch of others.)

[abalashov]

Yeah, so what ends up happening is sooner or later one ends up pulling dating partners from eccentric and probably unhealthy places. And the ones most willing to engage have their own reasons for seeking out a lonely programmer.

One can find great partners in such places, but it's really a spin of the Roulette wheel. They lack the proven characteristics of partners from healthy and likeminded peer groups. And they're likely to have fallen off the back of the wagon for their own reasons—sometimes good, but quite often, bad.

[J-dawg]

Everyone in this thread is talking in rather vague terms. I have a feeling I understand what you mean but I'm not sure. Can you (or anyone else) give an example of what you're referring to?

[abalashov]

I don't think we're being deliberately vague, the answer just varies for different people.

Generically, bad places to pull a spouse from: online dating sites/apps, bars, concerts, large parties, etc. Just about anywhere that attracts people from a variety of social strata and offers zero curation for common values, education or habits of mind, and/or doesn't sort people in any way based on useful proxies for those things.

The trouble is that those sources are tempting if you are socially isolated (from the opposite gender) and perceive yourself to have few options, and/or because you're lazy or fatigued from the ever-frustrating chase.

Always bad? No. But the median outcome is going to be worse than with other, more enlightened dating strategies.

[J-dawg]

So, lonely guys in male-dominated jobs get desperate and make bad dating choices in an attempt to avoid loneliness, which often ultimately backfire.

Yup, that's about what I thought.

[valueprop]

Right (been there). Any advice on solutions? What are the good places, how to join?

[lohengramm]

I can totally relate to that... And considering I am HPV+, the "unhealthy" part might be taken both figuratively and literally. :)

In my case, what could have helped me is guidance. Someone to tell me how to find the balance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsPoBXemFmg

[stickfigure]

considering I am HPV+

Uh... you and the rest of the world. You sound like you have some emotional angst about this, so I'll tell you what I learned a few years ago I wrote an HPV epidemiology simulator for a certain large pharmaceutical company (based on the best published studies at the time).

80% of the sexually active population will get at least one strain of HPV in their lifetime. >40% of people in their early 20s have at least one strain of HPV right now. Most people clear HPV (it becomes undetectable) in 1-2 years (mean of 8 months); the cancer cases appear to be the small percentage of unlucky ones whose immune systems don't. There's some debate whether HPV goes dormant or people just get reinfected. It's a hard theory to test because humans are constantly getting exposed to HPV.

Being "HPV+" is not like being "HIV+". It is not rare or permanent, and if you're out of your teens you can pretty much assume that 2/3 of the people you meet are also "HPV+". Unfortunately some strains increase the probability of certain cancers, and it's very much worth vaccinating against them EARLY. But you pretty much can't avoid HPV unless you become a hermit.

[lohengramm]

Hey, thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge. I am aware of how common it is.

I mentioned it now mostly because I am sure I have exposed myself to risky situations (that could have gotten me a way worse outcome than HPV) out of trying to "solve" loneliness, as we are discussing here. (And I ended up being one of the unlucky with persistent high risk strain, had a couple of cauterizations done.)

[jacobush]

In as a non value added way possible I want to add that the roulette wheel analogy holds really well - sometimes, only sometimes, the wheel pays out a HUGE win to a really lucky couple.

Most often, not.