[scott_s]

If you see exercise as a chore, then no, it wouldn't be worth it. I don't see exercise as a chore, and I am a fit 200 pounds.

I train four days a week in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and MMA. In order to get up to a fit 200 pounds, I've done a lot of strength training over the years, but I enjoy strength training.

[jules]

Even if someone wouldn't see it as a chore, and I don't know if I would because I don't do it, I have a hard time believing most people would enjoy doing it 2 hours a day. As 6 foot long less than 125 pound (but still definitely above average fit ;) male I could certainly use some weight.

How much strength training do you roughly need to do to add x lbs of muscle per year, assuming you haven't done any strength training? And how much do you need to do to maintain 200 pounds? (in hours per day)

[scott_s]

It's not the time spent that matters, it's the quality of the time spent. Intensity matters. A 30 minute intense workout is better than a leisurely 2 hour workout.

There's no real formula. When I started strength training, I knew nothing. I was lean and weighed about 155 pounds. That was about 9 years ago. In about two years I put on 20 pounds so that I was about 175. Over the course of two or so years, I put on about another 10 pounds so that I was usually around 185. Around then I switched my focus to compound lifts like deadlifts and clean & press. I shot up to 195 pounds. Last summer I lifted four days a week and shot up to 205 pounds. Now I walk around closer to 200 because I don't do much strength training. It's mostly grappling and conditioning - things that keep me in shape but they don't add any muscle mass.

A good goal when you start is to do strength training three days a week. That's enough to make progress, but you won't feel like you're always doing it.

I agree completely with the author of this article: focus on compound lifts like squat, deadlift, cleans, overhead press, clean and press. You'll need to invest time to learn how to do these lifts. Doing them properly (that is, in such a way that avoids injury and allows you to add weight) is a skill, and like any skill, you need practice to get good at it.

Also keep in mind that getting stronger and adding muscle mass is an adaptation. You're putting your body under some stress, and your body adapts to the stress by getting stronger. If you keep using the same stress, your body doesn't need to adapt anymore. You need to continually change what you do (more weight, or more reps, different exercises, less rest, etc.) to continue to see improvements.

[jules]

So 30 min every 2 days, that would work? I don't really have the equipment for most of those exercises, so I'll have to improvise (e.g. backpack filled with heavy stuff for one hand lifting). What can you suggest as exercises that don't require equipment, or only require things that most people have? I might buy stuff later but I'd first want to try out if I like doing it.

Thanks!

[scott_s]

Again, it's not about a formula. I can't say "X for y minutes will yield z."

Exercises that don't require any weights are pull-ups, dips, squats (with no load, obviously), burpees (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4H92emcabA ; harder than you think). All of these exercises will increase your strength at first, but eventually it'll just increase your conditioning. That is, once you're at the point that you can do, say, three pull-ups, being able to do more pull-ups won't add any muscle mass. It'll increase your conditioning (your body's ability to continue doing something), which is good, but you won't put on weight.

Really, if you want to add muscle mass, you need to lift heavy things.

Also, I have to agree that if you are indeed 6 foot, 125 pounds is startlingly thin. Have you ever had a doctor check if you have, perhaps, a hormonal problem that makes it difficult to keep weight on?

[jules]

Thanks for the exercises. I'm going to try pull ups tomorrow on a tree branch, but I'm pretty sure I can do more than 3 (I might be overly confident though). Squats seem a little too easy too without weight, but I can a backpack as weight? What do you think about push ups (with backpack)? Lifting a backpack with 1 arm? Is 3 about the right amount of times you should be able to do something? So increase weight until you can only do it 3 times? That would be almost impossible to do with a backpack for squats...anyway squats seem to be focused on the legs and my legs are already relatively big.

> Have you ever had a doctor check if you have, perhaps, a hormonal problem that makes it difficult to keep weight on?

No I have not seen a doctor. You guys seem to think that it's weird thin but I know a lot of people who weigh less than that, and even more people who look thinner. I think if you are not muscular and don't have much fat you weigh about that much.

[scott_s]

When was the last time you stepped on a scale? If a man who is 6 foot is 140 pounds, I would call him "skinny." I think a 6 foot man who is under 125 pounds is underweight. Also, your legs aren't "big" if you weight less than 125 pounds.

You're taking my advice too literally. You're grasping onto the numbers and thinking "Aha! These are the magic numbers I need to hit." It doesn't work that way. You asked what kind of strength training you can do without weights. There's lots of strength-conditioning you can do without weights, but it won't add muscle mass. I was trying to explain the difference between increasing your muscular endurance and increasing your absolute strength.

You're looking for a formula. There is none. If you want to get stronger and put on weight, there's a lot you have to learn about how your body reacts to the various kinds of stresses. Some resources for learning more:

http://www.stumptuous.com/ http://www.crossfit.com/ http://www.martygallagher.com/index

[executive]

First of all, hours in the gym doesn't mean anything.

It's more about diet -- 6ft/sub 125lb is sickly wire thin. You are living a lie if you consider yourself fit or healthy when you are malnourished, underweight and underdeveloped.

Start eating more. As an ectomorph you will have no problem shedding fat so you can pretty much stuff your face with cals every 2 hours.

Also, as an ectomorph, you need to get in and out of the gym as fast as possible so you don't burn too many cals. I suggest a beginner 5x5 program. Also, STAY AWAY FROM CARDIO.

Get to 160lb minimum and re-evaluate.

[jules]

> You are living a lie if you consider yourself fit or healthy

Nah, I think I'm fine. I run 7 miles every two days, and cycle nearly every day. I'm not going to stop doing that as I enjoy it and because I don't have a car. I look pretty normally muscular, perhaps even a bit more than the average guy and don't look very thin.

> Start eating more.

Perhaps, but I don't like eating when I'm full. What I ate today: 3 slices of bread with butter and cheese, 4 tomatoes, 3 pears and half a melon and some yogurt with sugar. Dinner: salad of 3.5 peppers & 1 zucchini with plenty of olive oil, pork (100-200 grams I think?) fried with oil and cream & mushroom sauce, pasta, cheese, and again yogurt with sugar (I omitted things that don't contain calories). So what do you suggest?

BTW ectomorph is a funny name, it sounds like an insect.