[TheAdamAndChe]

I think the problem isn't that a Bachelor's degree is good, but that it is becoming a basic job requirement for any decent job right now, which is rough. Not everyone is capable or has the desire to be a high-level manager or executive. Many just want to do their job and collect that paycheck. Why should a degree be required for a job like that?

[mywittyname]

Companies are completely entitled to ask for proof that a person can perform the job requirements and they feel like having an education is important to performing at the level they need.

I wouldn't walk onto a construction site and expect the foreman to give me a job as a carpenter without some proof that I can do the job.

[freehunter]

>I wouldn't walk onto a construction site and expect the foreman to give me a job as a carpenter without some proof that I can do the job.

The big problem is, historically the very thing has happened and that's how a lot of baby boomers got their first job. The day after high school graduation, my grandpa walked into a factory and asked for a job, he was given one right there on the spot. The foreman handed him a broom and he started sweeping that very day.

The way the world works has changed far faster than at any point in human history, and our society is still struggling to keep up with that. But yeah, 50 years ago you could walk onto a construction site, ask for a job, and you'd be given one. No experience required.

[smileysteve]

> The big problem is, historically the very thing has happened and that's how a lot of baby boomers got their first job.

To subvert your comment; High school jobs used to be a thing. Whether running a successful lawn mowing business or working at the nearest construction site when you turned 16.

I say this and I'm 30. However, I noticed when I was 16 that I was the only one on the block mowing lawns; none of my neighbors started mowing lawns when they were 12. [ or that I'm one of the few that has worked on a construction site, even some.]

[freehunter]

Yep. When I was in high school, I picked asparagus on a nearby farm. My sister bagged groceries at our local grocery store. I'm sure I could still get a job picking asparagus (at least around here, most farms use legal migrant workers who are paid at least minimum wage, so they're just as happy to hire Americans for the same job). The grocery store doesn't have baggers anymore, they went to the cashiers bagging, and then to self-checkout and self-bagging years ago.

I don't know if the interest in summer jobs went away or if the abundance of summer jobs went away (chicken or egg), but it's not nearly as common at all. Doesn't help when underemployed college graduates are working at Burger King instead of high schoolers.

[mywittyname]

> The foreman handed him a broom and he started sweeping that very day.

Exactly. Most office jobs don't have an analog to "broom sweeping." Which is why they have educational requirements. One wouldn't expect to go from janitor to accountant without getting an education.

[ryandrake]

> Most office jobs don't have an analog to "broom sweeping."

There used to be entry-level, no-skill "mail room" type jobs for people with little or no education. I'd imagine many Baby Boomers got their start that way (the same Baby Boomers who are amazed that their Starbucks barista has a PhD).

[ghaff]

Right. And a lot of those jobs have either mostly gone away because of computers. Look at an officeplace from the 1970s and there are a heck of a lot more true entry-level jobs.

And offices actually do still have "broom sweeping" but it's outsourced to a janitorial services company.

[dsfyu404ed]

>but it's outsourced to a janitorial services company.

Who outsources to a temp agency to cover absences and increases in demand

[freehunter]

For IT, I would say that is fulfilled by helpdesk/IT support. At least for organizations that haven't outsourced their helpdesk operations yet.

[TheAdamAndChe]

That's the thing, not all organizations need to outsource their helpdesk to have a major impact on all of the low-level jobs in the area. I'm in the third largest city in my state, I hold several IT certifications, and I can't even get a helpdesk job without a degree here. Enough organizations outsource to make it nearly impossible to get started without a degree plus 2+ years experience. This is the case across the country for most industries right now, and it's a huge source of political instability seen at the moment.

[TheAdamAndChe]

Historically, you could do that in the US. They are called 'apprenticeships,' and they were pretty common before globalization made the demand for labor drop to nothing.

[mywittyname]

This would not be a job as a carpenter, it would be a job as a carpenter's apprentice. Many white collar office jobs require some requisite education before you can even get an entry-level or apprentice-like job.

[svnsets]

>I wouldn't walk onto a construction site and expect the foreman to give me a job as a carpenter without some proof that I can do the job.

Of course companies can have education requirements. I think the point that many of these companies miss is that a college degree isn't proof of competency, and "having an education" is not the same as being educated. Specifically in the field of computer science, there are plenty of people that already have the skills needed to excel as a software engineer, but they do not have the resources to get a college degree.

[dikdik]

Why?

Low-level jobs shouldn't have huge, if any, barriers to entry. If a manager/foreman/etc can't teach high-school graduates how to do a basic job well, it reflects much more negatively on the manager/foreman than the high-school graduates.