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by poofyleek 3398 days ago
Korean language has built-in social framework for respecting the elders. Different words used when speaking to someone older vs. younger. The language enforces filial piety.

When I learned German, French and Spanish I struggled with gender specific features in them.

When I learned English, I struggled and still struggle with the use of articles, like the "the".

Languages reflect and reinforce culture and mindsets. I am a different person in each language.

Reading translated books is a great mental and cultural exercise.

Elena Ferrante reads better in English than the original Italian.

Jhumpa Lahiri reads better in English than Italian.

2 comments

Well, yes, and it's a pain in the ass, and I say that as a native Korean speaker who wholeheartedly loves my own language.

To see why, consider that in Korean schools, people use different registers when talking to someone one grade older. There are situations like "Joon is one year senior to me, but he's actually friends with my friend Min, who entered this college a year before me, and Joon was born on January of 1980 while I was born on November 1979; so how should I address him?"

(And it certainly contributes to the large number of old male asshats who think they can treat a store clerk like his personal servant, just because the clerk is forty years younger.)

The sooner we get rid of this ridiculous system, or at least drastically simplify it, the better, IMHO.

Indonesians also use honorifics when addressing elders. I find that i'm much more respectful to elders that i talk to in Indonesian than in English.
Many languages have the sigular vs plural "you" distinction that is heavily used to indicate degrees of social standing and/or respect, that are utterly lacking in English. When you come to English from those languages, it sounds very blunt and disrespectful initially.

Russian also uses names for this purpose, since we have first + last + patronymic, various combinations of those when addressing someone denote various degrees of familiarity and deference. E.g. first + patronymic is respect for authority or seniority (but sometimes used jokingly); last name alone is very impersonal; first name + plural you is respectful while asserting equal authority; and first name + singular you indicates a more personal relationship (friend or at least close acquaintance). Some combos, like last name + singular you, are outright insulting in and of themselves - curiously, historically that was the combo used by aristocracy to address inferiors. And as conversation develops, it's not uncommon for people to start with the most formal form of address, and gradually dial it down by mutual consent, often implicit.

And, because of all this, addressing someone by name repeatedly over the course of the conversation is more common in Russian than it is in English - because of all that extra meaning attached to it.

It is not that rigorous in Russian, though. "First name + patronymic" combination is often used among equals (supposedly equally qualifed/approx. same age group) as a matter of style or tradition, which engineering or research bureaus are especially known for. I've personally encountered such usage in university and in a factory IT departments; my friend, working as mechanical engineer in a big industrial complex, has the same observation. However, despite the inclusion of patronymic, personal pronouns tend to be singular in that case. Such style of referencing perhaps lies between full-blown formal interaction and a joking context as in a casual speech.

Another subtlety is an explicit and implicit addressing style unification among unequal participants.

I. [explicit] When you are referring to superior, using the aforementioned "f.n.+patronymic", he is expected to return you in the same way, even (or especially...) in the case of student-professor interaction.

II. [implicit] You are still expected to use formal addressing, when addressed informally by superior - but when that expectation holds, it is actually considered unacceptable, or bad style at least, for superior to use such addressing; unless you're in the student-professor relationship with the superior, or you're working in some shitty-unwitty paperstocking dogfood reselling organization, or you're unskilled/simple-skilled labour in a government institution. Rephrasing, superior should make sure that you both use the same addressing style (ie. as in I.).