[Animats]

I saw Etak back in its early days, and Stan Honey gave me a demo. I still have one of their rate gyro/2D level units, and a compass unit. There's a motor driving a spinning disk, which warps slightly when the unit is turned, and sensors to detect the warp. The level, for sensing which way is down, is a sealed cup of liquid with the liquid height sensed with four capacitor plates outside the cup. The liquid was proprietary, chosen to not slosh under automotive movement. The whole thing is the size of a soda can. The compass is a 2-axis magnetometer, about 2 inches square. It wasn't mounted on a window; it had to be mounted in the horizontal plane, preferably far from metal.

The original Etak units always had the map oriented with north at the top. That was the way sailors used maps. Honey said they'd discovered that about 20% of the population could not cope with a map that wasn't aligned with the direction they were going, which is why they started rotating the map based on vehicle travel. Now everybody does that, and that's why.

[mmastrac]

> about 20% of the population could not cope with a map that wasn't aligned with the direction they were going

That's me. I have a tough time orienting maps in my head. I still use a mnemonic for compass directions and (occasionally) use my left hand as an L to make sure I'm not screwing it up.

I don't know if there is any research into what the structural differences of brains that suffer from this might be, let alone if there is a name for it.

[avar]

    > I don't know if there is any research into [needing to
    > reorient maps when driving].

There is! One thing it's highly correlated with is whether you're either a heterosexual woman, or a homosexual man.

There's a really good description of this and other brain attributes correlated with gender or male homosexuality in the BBC show "The Making of Me - John Barrowman". This specific part starts around 6m30s in: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6a063_the-making-of-me-joh...

Here's an article about it in New Scientist, "Gay men read maps like women": https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn7069-gay-men-read-map...

That's not to suggest that you're either a homosexual man or a heterosexual woman based on this datapoint alone. There's of course plenty of people who don't fall into those groups who prefer to read maps that way, just to answer your question about whether there's research about it. Yeah, there's at least some research showing that spatial recognition is indicative of gender & sexual orientation.

[DigitalJack]

I'm an exception. Terrible sense of direction... My sister in law is an exception too. I swear she had a virtual map in her head that was always perfectly oriented.

I actually prefer having a GPS map north up, so that I can train my brain to have a non-relative mental map so that once I orient myself to the compass I can figure out where to go.

As it is, my mental map bears little resemblance to reality.

[jansenv]

This is extremely fascinating! It seems like an almost un-pc fact.

[learn_more]

If you train yourself to use a static orientation however, you develop a much better "big picture" awareness of the city you drive in, eventually freeing yourself from requiring navigational assistance.

The additional cognitive load is worth it for me.

[Arizhel]

I can't imagine why you wouldn't want navigational assistance. The only time I drive without my GPS is if I'm going somewhere I go frequently, along a route I normally travel, and it's a short distance. Any place new, and I'm using GPS, and even if I'm going someplace familiar, and I'm familiar with the route, if it's a good distance away I use the GPS anyway to make sure I don't miss a turn and also, very importantly, to reroute me according to traffic conditions. I don't care how good you think your knowledge of the roads in a city are: there is no possible way that you can know that there's a traffic jam or accident along your normal route (unless you're like Paul Atreides). A traffic-aware GPS system will alert you to these things and reroute you if possible.

The thing that's valuable about having that "big picture" awareness of your city is in being able to second-guess the GPS when it gives you bad information, which is rare but it does happen because they're not perfect, or to know that the route it's chosen will only save you 10 seconds but will take you through a residential area with speedbumps instead of a larger road meant for through traffic.

[sedachv]

> I can't imagine why you wouldn't want navigational assistance.

Here is why I look up directions in advance in almost all situations:

* GPS is a distraction to maintaining awareness while driving, motorcycling, and bicycling.

* Navigational assistance does not help you when walking, taking public transit or taxis. Using GPS while driving prevents you from learning the layout of the place you are in which transfers to navigational competence for these other modes of transportation.

* You miss fun roads when following GPS navigation.

* GPS navigation is useless when planning long bicycle and motorcycle tours. I pick waypoints and routes between them in advance.

* GPS will route you into sketchy situations (like to phantom bridges) that you could have predicted by looking at a map.

* GPS does not take weather conditions into account when routing. People have gotten into floods (easy to see when looking at rivers and topo on a map in advance), stuck in snow, and have even died in the desert: http://www.sacbee.com/entertainment/living/travel/article257...

I do not know very many competent drivers who rely on GPS navigation. I see plenty of "GPS zombies" obliviously plowing through intersections and ignoring crosswalks every day.

The most use I get out of having a GPS dash unit is on trails and off-roading in my truck or motorcycle, where there is usually no signage for forest roads and trails.

[e28eta]

I know how to read a map. I have a good memory. I have a good sense of direction. I did a fair amount of driving before getting a smartphone/GPS. I delivered pizzas for ~3 years, and I'd look up the 1-5 houses on our paper maps at the store showing every street, nearly every house by number, most of the apartments by number, and then memorize the route. I drove cross country a couple times with basic AAA maps and printed Google Maps directions.

I'll defend using GPS on my phone to navigate. It provides a couple benefits that I really enjoy.

1. It knows what is ahead of me before I do. Specifically traffic, where it sometimes provides useful re-routing (although I dislike Waze's re-routing). Also, Waze's user reports can be helpful to warn about debris in the road, etc.

2. It has a consistent interface. When driving in an unfamiliar location, being able to look in one place to see if the next street is the one I need is way better than trying to find & read every street sign.

3. It has a voice interface, which I believe is safer than trying to read my handwritten notes or the printed google maps directions as a driver.

4. I appreciate seeing the current Speed Limit, displayed by Waze.

5. It greatly reduces the cost of missed turns. I hate seeing cars cut across multiple lanes of traffic (or even just one!) at the last minute to make their exit.

The GPS does make it easier to navigate. I think that frees up more of my attention to focus on other aspects of driving: watching the cars around me, looking for pedestrians, cyclists, and other hazards. I believe that actually increases my awareness of what's going on around me.

I agree that not everyone becomes a better driver when using GPS, but I think they could.

[Arizhel]

Exactly; I agree 100%. GPS has made me a much better driver: I don't miss turns, I'm not distracted trying to find some fallen-down or turned-sideways street sign or trying to read building numbers from the street, and I'm alerted to traffic backups so I have a chance of avoiding them.

[learn_more]

Well said. To clarify my point, GPS maps can actually be a learning tool instead of a crutch. But it seems to require static map orientation. When the map is always oriented north, it teaches you about the city as you see your location move within it. When it's constantly shifting the map orientation around, it seems it's too confusing to extract "big picture" knowledge. I don't think most people realize this, since mapping systems often default to the "driver-centric" viewpoint, and if they don't, it's the first thing people change.

[sedachv]

Good point. I always have to set whatever GPS I am trying to use to fixed scale (no auto-zoom) map view with "north is up" before things feel right.

[douche]

GPS also does not work underground. Anyone who has driven through Boston's Big Dig and tried to rely on turn-by-turn directions quickly learns this, accompanied by much cursing.

[civilian]

So here's the thing: If you use GPS, you aren't going to build up your mental map of your city. But if you go without GPS, then you will work towards building up your mental map, and it kind of snowballs.

I really like to: Look up directions on Gmaps, and then jot down the relevant turns I need to know onto a piece of paper. The idea is that Gmaps tells me 20 or so turns, but I really need to only know a highway exit # and a few turns.

The awesome thing is that I've often _forgotten that piece of paper_! But because I went through the act of writing it down, it's stuck in my memory, and I'm usually able to figure it out without checking my phone.

I have a friend who's a great software engineer, and he has great visual/spatial awareness, but he always drives by GPS, and it's kind of embarrassing to sit in the car for two minutes while he gets directions ready to go. -_-

[RJIb8RBYxzAMX9u]

Personally, I don't care that using a map would make me a "better navigator" the same way I don't care that driving stick would make me a "better driver." I don't enjoy driving at all, it's purely a mean to an end, so I'll take any aid that would make the experience more pleasant, and / or reduce my cognitive load.

If I ever start making FU money, and fully self-driving cars are not yet a reality, I would definitely hire chauffeur(s) to drive me around. S/he could use a map, s/he so chooses...

[civilian]

But I mean, it's not about enjoying driving. It's about being an attentive and safe driver. One of the things my Driver's Ed class went over is that: Even if you are the victim of an accident, there's a decent chance that there is something you could have done to avoid it. Things like: Making sure you have 2 of your 4 directions clear, leaving extra space, and watching other drivers.

I think you're wrong that GPS reduce your cognitive load. It reduces it in the short term, but in the long term you are always listening to and referencing an noisey/bright device. In the long run it's a tax, and so it hurts your ability to be an overwhelming safe driver. This is an N=1, but I'm 30, and I'm a bit of a fast driver, and I've never been in an accident.

[ams6110]

I find that if I use GPS/Nav to get somewhere, I have no real awareness of where I am or how to get back. Having spent the large majority of my life without a smartphone (or a mobile phone of any kind) I don't really like that feeling.

If I look up where I'm going in advance, or use written instructions, I can generally backtrack to my origin without too much difficulty.

[Arizhel]

I've spent the large majority of my life without a smartphone too. I have no trouble knowing where I am or how to get back when I use GPS navigation, or building a "mental map" of the area. I really don't know what's wrong with you people who make these claims.

[dsfyu404ed]

x2

[anticodon]

I'll add my two cents: when driving motorcycle with GPS assistance, I can't concentrate on the driving and get fun from the driving motorcycle. When I'm driving my bike, I prefer to clear my head of all things and concentrate on the road and feelings in my body. This way I get maximum pleasure from riding. When I use GPS, it immediately breaks this state of bliss you can experience while driving bike. Driving with GPS feels like tedious work instead of pleasure.

[dsfyu404ed]

>I can't imagine why you wouldn't want navigational assistance.

Most navigational aids are terrible at picking good routes to places outside a few very highly trafficked city.

Sure it might pick a good route if you just want shortest distance or least time but if you're willing to add 10sec to avoid a shitshow intersection you're gonna have to do that yourself.

[ChristianBundy]

Could it be possible that this may be easier for you than it is for the person you're replying to? Here's my understanding of the conversation that just happened:

A: I have trouble doing Z.

B: Many people have trouble doing Z! Interestingly enough, many X and Y also have trouble doing Z.

C: I'm able to do Z, and I can tell you that the benefits are worth the cost.

[learn_more]

I'm simply pointing out there is an often overlooked benefit to using navigation with a static map orientation. For folks who are "bad at directions" this may help them fix that deficit.

[aplusbi]

It sounds like you might have some form of Topographical Disorientation: https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn25578-mindscapes-the-...

Every once in awhile (maybe a couple times a month) I'll have this sort of experience (though not as dramatic) where everything is a mirror image. I expect a store to be on the opposite side of the street for example, and it's momentarily disorienting. I've learned to not rely on my intuition when navigating.

[mmastrac]

Interesting, it might be related. I only have it while driving or walking in unfamiliar places, but it does sound very similar.

The article notes that the researcher who diagnosed her lives in the same city I do.

[callinyouin]

I have a problem with directions / general spatial awareness that sounds similar to what you have. I have a hard time plotting a route to a known location in my head in the city I've lived in for 10+ years, but strangely have no problem getting there once I start driving/biking/walking (depending on how familiar I am with the destination, obviously). I've made it a point to study maps and randomly test whether or not I can point out cardinal directions when I'm out and about and that seems to have helped a bit, but I have a hard time navigating new and unfamiliar places. Truly big cities like Chicago are impossible to navigate. I don't know what I'd do without GPS.

[QSIITurbo]

As for orienting the map, it's common practice in sports and army at least. You're _supposed_ to orient the map according to your surroundings and the direction you are facing. It's faster and less prone to errors.

[bambax]

Joey from Friends has to go into the map while in London https://youtu.be/oKCIMX2dsEc?t=40

[4ad]

> The original Etak units always had the map oriented with north at the top. That was the way sailors used maps. Honey said they'd discovered that about 20% of the population could not cope with a map that wasn't aligned with the direction they were going, which is why they started rotating the map based on vehicle travel.

I am the opposite, I cannot deal with a map that does not have north on top and it's constantly moving. Modern mapping software sometimes makes it frustratingly hard to keep north on top.

[yawz]

> about 20% of the population could not cope with a map that wasn't aligned with the direction they were going

I guess, we should all play DnD and Dungeon Crawling every once in a while.