[paskster]

Please don't waste your time pitching to investors in this position in Berlin. If you make X < 100.000 EUR monthly revenue, then any "investor" in Berlin will probably tell you:

"Very interesting. Let's keep in touch and come back when you make 5 * X EUR revenue."

And if make X >= 100.000 EUR revenue per month, then you most likely don't need 50-75K.

One thing in Berlin ist crucial: Social Proof. If you have it, you can raise 5 Mio EUR with basically zero traction and if you don't have it, it will be a long and timeconsuming process to raise any money at a fair valuation.

Are you willing to spend 6 - 9 months to raise 50 K and do you have significant monthly revenue? If so, your approach to meeting random investors should work. Otherwise you might want to apply for an accelerator in Berlin (for 25 K) or just focus in bootstrapping until you can approach international VCs outside Berlin.

EDIT: Spelling

[bitL]

This. And it's not just Berlin, it's the whole Germany including banks - they will all tell you please make 1M, then we will lend you 1M with your 1M as a collateral. Simply forget it unless you managed to choose your parents wisely (i.e. rich or influential).

[jbverschoor]

Expand to europe. Ot at least the Netherlands

[jjpe]

Where in the Netherlands would be a good idea to check out?

[gizmo]

I think he's saying the opposite: expand the thesis that you can't raise money without social proof beyond Germany to the Netherlands.

[raverbashing]

> One thing in Berlin ist crucial: Social Proof

Then work on that. Or try to partner with someone who has that

How? Mingle. Go to meetings. Network "horizontally" (in your tech segment) and "vertically" (in your business segment).

One way you're not getting that is by being the foreigner just off the plane (or even there for a couple of years) that can't speak German

There's actually a funny series of bilingual books about "How to be Berliner/How to be German" that are kind of tongue-in-cheek but it gets on the overall mindset

And as someone said below, something like < 100k can be gotten from FFFs, so look onto that.

[paskster]

> Then work on that.

I disagree. If you don't already have Social Proof, then it takes a big investment to try getting it. I believe for 99% of all startup teams, the time is better spent by working on your product or acquiring customers.

Networking is not working. I have seen so many startups in Berlin, who had a good shot of making it, but who wasted time in "fundraising" or "networking" and therefore killed their business.

Now obviously to each his own and for some it might work. But I believe only very few people on very few occasions get something out of networking.

EDIT: added a paragraph

[raverbashing]

> Networking is not working. I have seen so many startups in Berlin, who had a good shot of making it, but who wasted time in "fundraising" or "networking" and therefore killed their business.

You're right. But even for a technical person, spending "24h" coding is too much

But ideally one person would be dedicated to coding, another, to the business/financial/fundraising side

[_ak]

> One way you're not getting that is by being the foreigner just off the plane (or even there for a couple of years) that can't speak German

So, like most people in the Berlin startup scene?

[raverbashing]

;)

[k__]

True.

The German start-up scene is pretty shitty.

Last time I checked about incubators or accelerators, most of the companies that work in that space were like "Oh no, we are not one of those, we do [insert some crap no founder needs] to help startups!"

Basically no one gives you money for anything if you don't know the right people and those who do want to own the company in full, which defeats the whole startup idea in the first place...

[anotheryou]

So there are no investors for early startups? (honest question, not a rethorical one)

There is still a lot between 100k revenue and not profitable at all. What about something like barely selfsustaining (but by that proven to be somewhat profitable) with 2 employees? Or making 10k with a 2-man startup?

[paskster]

There are a lot of Investors in Berlin. But without Social Proof, it would probably be a waste of time trying to approach them.

If you make about 100k revenue (or if you have otherwise significant traction), you can not only approach investors in Berlin but also ouside, which kind of solves the "Social Proof" problem.

If you are barely selfsustaining, then please stay bootstrapped and grow your business. Otherwise the process of fundraising in Berlin will most likely kill your business.

EDIT: added one paragraph

[canttestthis]

Could you briefly explain how "social proof" applies to startups?

[paskster]

If you have Social Proof, you know you have it. If you are not sure, then you don't have it.

Social Proof could mean: - You are a Serial Entrepreneur - A famous Business Angel invested in your company - You graduated from a University with a great Alumni Network - etc.

Basically if a potential investor evaluates your Market, Traction or Business Model, then you already lost. If a potential investor invests, because he thinks other investors want to invest, then this is Social Proof.

For example you are talking one hour with a potential investor:

If you talk 90 % of the time about who else is investing and about how to structure the investment round, then you have Social Proof. If you instead talk 90 % of the time about how big the market is, what your revenue model will be any why your churn rate only decreased 2 % in the last month, then you don't have Social Proof.

Also if the potential investors talks about making the investment bigger to increase your run rate and increase your leverage for a Series B, you have Social Proof. If instead the potential investors is asking you if you can decrease your burn rate or recommends you to raise a smaller amount, then you don't have Social Proof.

EDIT: Added one paragraph

[wiradikusuma]

I'm in similar boat with the OP and with your comment I feel defeated already, but I guess it's the reality. Thanks for the bitter pill :)

[paskster]

Don't feel defeated. Embrace the fact that you can make it on your own ;)

[UK-AL]

Social proof is a catch 22. Social proof is proof of previously being successful(or perceived to be). They want the return of investment to granted as possible. And for that they want previous successes.

But to get those success you need social proof.

It's a hard problem.

[pawelkomarnicki]

Really? Then the whole seed funding must make no sense to you, mustn't it? ;-)

[paskster]

It makes a lot of sense for people with Social Proof.

[kakoni]

Oh funny. Just like in Northern Europe (Finland).

[pyvpx]

could you clarify what you mean by Social Proof?

[ddorian43]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_proof

[paskster]

see my reply here, I hope it answers your question: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13634338