[sydd]

Why come up with a new API for this? Why not use the one supported by Google, and MS, Vulkan? We dont need another (a fourth!) API for the same thing. Introduce a web variant like Khronos with with WebGL (its almost like OpenGL ES, which is almost like OpenGL).

[acqq]

> Why not use the one supported by Google, and MS, Vulkan?

https://www.lunarg.com/faqs/microsoft-support-vulkan/

"Microsoft has not expressed intent to support Vulkan."

[sydd]

and the next sentence goes "However, there are well defined mechanisms by which IHVs can ship a Vulkan driver on any version of Windows. But it will be as it is the case now with OpenGL. That is, it is up to the application to negotiate with the implementation to install an appropriate Vulkan driver for the hardware that is on the machine."

Also "Vulkan is available on all versions of Windows that are on DirectX 12, so there is potentially some value to the developer community to having a single API that spans multiple Windows versions."

Vulkan is fully supported on Windows with semi-recent GPUs (e.g. its supported by Nvidia with Geforce 6xx - released in 2012!) by all vendors.

The article is only saying that MS defers what API is supported to GPU manufacturers. Its not supported by Xbox and Windows Phones, but Xbox is a very different market and no one cares about Windows Phone.

[guardiangod]

Someone else mentioned that they don't care about Nvidia and AMD both advocating for Vulkan because I'm personally not interested in the big desktop PCs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulkan_(API)#Compatibility

In addition to Nvidia and AMD, Intel, Imagination Technologies, Qualcomm (!!!), and ARM support Vulkan. Hardware wise, there is absolutely no problem whatsoever.

[mrpippy]

Intel has only released beta/test drivers for Windows, and this was their statement as of August:

The current Plan Of Record is that Intel® is not supporting Vulkan on Windows drivers. The drivers that were made available on Developer.com are intended for Vulkan developers.

So, it is expected that some Vulkan drivers may not work for end users.

Intel GPUs power at least 50% of Windows PCs, and I'd guess the number is closer to 70%. Unless this situation changes, Vulkan is not the single cross-platform answer.

[ioquatix]

Intel has (unofficially?) said they will deliver production quality Vulkan drivers for their iGPUs. https://software.intel.com/en-us/forums/developing-games-and...

[acqq]

Thanks for providing the link. The relevant quotes:

"Vulkan support right now is for 6th Generation and newer products and we are targeting developers not consumers. Thus why the releases are beta and are listed in the Game Developer Zone and not anywhere else."

is full Vulkan support planned for consumers: "To my knowledge yes, but I do not know when and would not want to hazard a guess"

[microcolonel]

Windows 8 and older power more than half of Windows PCs, so Direct3D 12 is no more widely deployed than Vulkan.

[pjmlp]

It is, given that Vulkan only has quality drivers on Android 7, currently 0.7%, and GNU/Linux, currently 2% of the desktop market, as per Steam dashboard.

Windows 10 is at around 25% currently.

[acqq]

> by all vendors

NVIDIA and ATI are hardly "all" vendors I care about. I'm personally not interested in the big desktop PCs. YMMV of course. But I'm personally very against "winner takes it all" and I'd really like some more universal web API, especially one that consumes less power on the iOS devices.

Edit: the answer to the question below by sydd: I'm honestly and pragmatically interested in iOS and Apple devices, not Microsoft, and not the Google-controlled ones. All these comments are about Apple's proposal for a standard for Web. I'm with the ones having the smaller market share here. I'm still sad Opera Presto is no more. I consider such "smaller" players extremely important for the web.

[sydd]

Then which vendors do you care about from the Microsoft ecosystem (which this thread is about)? Vulkan is supported by Nvidia, AMD and Intel, I think this covers >99% of the Windows landscape. Windows phone? or Xbox? Hololens?

[kalleboo]

Intel does not support Vulkan. They had some beta drivers for devs to test on, but no further plans

[ioquatix]

This is not true. Intel has (unofficially?) said they will deliver production quality Vulkan drivers for their iGPUs. https://software.intel.com/en-us/forums/developing-games-and...

[goldfire]

They don't need to support it, because the GPU vendors have done so in their drivers, so it works fine on Windows without Microsoft's assistance.

[pjmlp]

Not on UWP applications, which are the future.

[douche]

They've been saying that for a few years, but nobody seems to be buying it. The store is still a wasteland of mobile-style shovelware, and none of the real Windows applications have made the jump, far as I have seen.

[pjmlp]

Many of the Windows 10 applications like the file explorer and Edge are UWP.

Also the majority of all the new OS APIs are UWP only.

[sydd]

I dontknow, what are you trying to prove? Its a fact that from the new, low-level APIs (Vulkan, Metal, DX 12) Vulkan has the most widespread support:

Vulkan: Its on most Windows PCs, most Linux PCs, on newer Android devices, and on the Nintendo Switch. Also there are rumours of the next PS going with Vulkan too.

DX12: most Windows PCs, XBox One.

Metal: iOS/OSX only.

So its clearly the future on the desktop market. Obviously it will take a few years for it to spread, since AAA game companies go for the proven solutions.

On mobile, we will see, I cant imagine Google adopting Metal or DX12, and Apple sadly seems to be sticking to their proprietary API.