[Animats]

Waymo is partnered with Fiat-Chrysler. That's a car company.

The Chevy Bolt is finally shipping in volume. Deliveries started in late December. An autonomous version is scheduled for next year.[1] (It involves Cruise Automation technology, which is worrisome.) Tesla now has a competitor that is building electric cars in volume. The Chevrolet Division of General Motors is good at making large numbers of cars.

Michigan now has a self-driving car law. It's claimed to be the least restrictive, but it's very similar to California's. As with California, the manufacturer is totally responsible for anything that goes wrong while in automated mode. As usual, Uber is complaining about this.

[1] http://www.chevybolt.org/forum/4-2017-chevy-bolt-news/5625-a...

[ChuckMcM]

The Waymo partnership with Chrysler is mentioned in the article. They announced that partnership back in May[1]. They dropped some press releases on their self driving mini-van in December [2] where it was noted among the press that "Other automakers, including Ford and General Motors, have made even more aggressive moves on the self-driving car front."

And then here in January we have this content free press release.

I'm a big fan of figuring out self driving cars. As the evolution of self driving cars unfolds, I become convinced that Google (or a subsidiary via Alphabet) is going to end up being much of a player in the space.

[1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-05-03/fiat-goog...

[2] http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2016/12/19/get-firs...

[jayjay71]

Time will tell, but I think the biggest red flag for Google/Waymo was how many senior personnel left the project in the last year. It wasn't just a few people - it was almost anybody that had been named in every previous press release, and many other people as well.

[LightskinKanye]

Did they move companies? If so, which companies did they move to? I am guessing this could already be found publicly?

[jayjay71]

Some left to start their own companies, some went to Uber, and some haven't publicly stated yet. Everything I said is easy to verify via Google (there are articles written about it). The heavy hitters are Sebastian Thrun who left many years ago, so that's now really news; Chris Urmson, who was the face of the project, left about a year ago; Anthony Levandowski left to start his company (but really to join Uber since that was clearly the idea from the start) and took some people with him; and two of the lead software engineers started Nuro.ai

[zardeh]

I think you messed up at the end of your post. Are you missing the word "not" here?

>I become convinced that Google (or a subsidiary via Alphabet) is going to end up being much of a player in the space.

[ChuckMcM]

Yup. Can't edit it now sadly.

[martin_bech]

597 cars delivered in 2016, thats not volume. And they have stated that it will not be availabe in all markets, in europe it will only be available in Norway.

Source for delivery

https://electrek.co/2017/01/05/gm-579-chevy-bolt-ev-2016/

[olex]

Isn't it supposed to be available in all of (or most of) Europe as the Opel Ampera-E? Various German e-mobility sources have published more than a few previews and stuff, would be surprising if it doesn't arrive here.

edit Opel also has a German preview page up on their website: http://www.opel.de/fahrzeuge/neuheiten-uebersicht/opel-amper...

[ccozan]

Still low volume.

For now, the guvern program to subsidy the buy of an electric car in Germany is a big flop. Not because the money wasn't good, but we're used to jump in our Diesel Audi|BMW|Merz and drive 1000km until the next fill-up.

If all cars would be electric, the economy would stand still, while loading batteries. So, no.

[martin_bech]

As far as I know, Norway first, then Germany and some other european markets beginning in 2018. They lose money on every car, so it seems like they are limiting production and only delivering cars in California, where they get ZEV credits.

[cowardlydragon]

Chevy doesn't have an intercity fast charge network. Tesla will win any buying decision with a manufacturer that doesn't have one, or until a sufficient national vendor-independent network appears.

[runeks]

Perhaps we should advocate that these sorts of connectors be made non-applicable for patent protection? As a consumer, I have no interest in car manufacturers being able to prevent competitors from being compatible.

[toomuchtodo]

As a Tesla investor, I don't want legacy auto manufacturers getting a leg up after Tesla was the one who poured tens of millions of dollars into their charging network.

I would fight this legislation every step of the way, even if I had to liquidate all of my TSLA holdings to do so. You (legacy automakers) want to not take EVs seriously until someone spent the last decade making them practical and desirable, and then try to use legislation to catch up? Tough.

[sangnoir]

Looks like you're going to have to fight with Tesla[1] then:

> If we clear a path to the creation of compelling electric vehicles, but then lay intellectual property landmines behind us to inhibit others, we are acting in a manner contrary to that goal. Tesla will not initiate patent lawsuits against anyone who, in good faith, wants to use our technology.

1. https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-you

[toomuchtodo]

Not at all. Musk has said there are other carmakers using their patents; great! That doesn't mean they're building out charging networks globally.

Tesla is a member of the new CCS fast charging consortium (which supersedes the current "fast" charging CHAdeMO standard) [1], but they're the only ones still building out their manufacturer charging system network.

[1] https://longtailpipe.com/2016/04/18/tesla-joins-150-kw-ccs-f...

[forgetsusername]

>You (legacy automakers) want to not take EVs seriously until someone spent the last decade making them practical and desirable, and then try to use legislation to catch up? Tough.

The Supercharging Network isn't as big a deal as you're letting on. A standard will be achieved, fuelling stations will install them (they own a lot of real estate) and the minimal advantage this is now providing Tesla buyers will disappear. A charger network is not a moat.

[toomuchtodo]

Why would you go to a fueling station when you can charge at home, at Superchargers, and destination chargers at businesses? No one is going to gas stations again with EVs, even if they convert to EV charging stations.

[forgetsusername]

>Why would you go to a fueling station when you can charge at home, at Superchargers, and destination chargers at businesses

How is a Supercharging station different from a fuelling station?

Other EV users won't go to a "Tesla SuperCharging Station", they'll go to a "BP FastCharge" or "Exxon MegaCharge" station (or some entrepreneurial EV charging outfit).

My point was, the Supercharging Network isn't a big advantage.

[ktRolster]

That seems like a fight you're going to lose. As for me, I'm on the side of open standards (because they are so obviously beneficial).

That might want to be an area where you "pick your battles," and save your energy for something else.

[Animats]

As of February 2016, there were 1530 CHAdeMO high-powered chargers in the US, compared to only 253 Tesla Supercharger stations. Tesla is falling behind.

[tokipin]

You're right quantity-wise, but then you have https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/812708946225963008 . I'd be surprised if Tesla EV's don't soon charge faster than it takes to fill up gas, within a couple years even. If EV's in general take off though, I think it's true that Tesla may have trouble keeping up with the larger market in terms of chargers.