[protomyth]

Ok, so they quit. What does that do to Facebook or the US government? Not much.

If they really want to change things, then you have to enter politics as a group. Ask a Union where it gets its power. This pledge is not a factor in US politics. There is a reason that the US has to have laws to prevent union busting and those specific circumstances are the same for these type of pledges. The difference is the people pledging have no such protection. I can point to a long history of groups entering politics affecting change, can you do the same with a pledge to quit?

[tptacek]

So, then, which is it:

1. You don't believe enough people will sign this. What percentage would need to sign it to make it significant?

2. You don't believe people will actually quit their jobs, despite signing something that puts them a single Google query away from revealing this position to any future employer. What would it take for you to believe this specific commitment, without adding additional commitments?

It's got to be one or the other, right? Which is it?

[protomyth]

> It's got to be one or the other, right? Which is it?

No, it does not as neither is what I wrote or believe.

The pledge is an empty gesture matched against corporate or government interests. Pledgers do not have the same protections that Unions have now. They will be replaced.

Groups organize and exert political power by playing the same game in DC as every other group that succeeded. The faster tech wakes up and learns from Unions and political action groups the better people will be protected. Influence the politicians, force them to pick favorable judges, do the PR work to scare the shit out of politicians that would oppose your agenda, and then you succeed. Why the heck do you think we have an unfavorable bill every damn session? Heck, the Head Start lobby is better at this then people in technology.

Once again, I can point to a long history of groups entering politics affecting change, can you do the same with a pledge to quit?

[tptacek]

I'm not sure how to map this response to my question. It sounds like you're saying, "so few people will sign this that it will be easy for any tech company to make up the loss". How many would have to sign for it to be different?

[protomyth]

A significant chunk of all future IT workers, and as olalonde points out[1] some won't because they don't believe its wrong.

How about you answer the question I asked before yours. "I can point to a long history of groups entering politics affecting change, can you do the same with a pledge to quit?"

I find the whole premise of the pledge to be a non-starter in the US. This is why congresspeople fear the NRA but not the EFF.

1) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13188039

[tptacek]

I don't understand what the US has to do with this pledge. The people signing it don't need legal defense against their employers. Leaving their jobs is the point.

[protomyth]

Are you trying to affect change or just have out of work techs?

I can point to a long history of groups entering politics affecting change, can you do the same with a pledge to quit?

[nialo]

I think this sort of thing is where unions come from.