[NSX2]

How does that make a difference? Let's just say it's something that I know more about than however many PhDs they have looking into it and no matter how smart they are or what their budget is, it will be impossible to replicate the conditions that led to the insights I've gained about why things developed as they did and how to apply it to the business world.

Not saying it's because I'm smarter or anything, it's just a freak accident that resulted from my background and personal interests which came together in some unexpected ways to give me insight into what was worth paying to in this area while most people would have dismissed the whole area as not worth paying serious attention to to begin with.

So - question is:

a) Screw it, it's taking too long

or

b) It may be an uphill struggle but this is a good sign that it's at least worth continuing

[soundsop]

Let's just say it's something that I know more about than however many PhDs they have looking into it and no matter how smart they are or what their budget is, it will be impossible to replicate the conditions that led to the insights I've gained about why things developed as they did and how to apply it to the business world.

Then why not reveal the idea? I'm curious...

[aswanson]

Think about your life now, and your life at 75. What decision do you think your 75 year old self would wish you had made? Do what the old man tells you to do.

[NSX2]

But that's the thing. My life now sucks because I've spent most of my spare time researching this. And progress has been so slow. Friends have drifted away, etc.

If I give up and sell out, at least I'll have a comfy position at a respectable company where people smarter than me would respect what I have to offer because I have 6 years worth of thinking about the problem on them.

But the startup route ... hell I can't even find any programmers to put a demo together ...

I could make a career out of this "there" ... or just keep fumbling in the dark making teeny tiny progress (if any) while my personal/professional life suffers.

I don't know anymore. That's why I posted this, I guess.

Quite frankly the "75" year old me is saying, "Do what you want, but keep in mind you're going to need good health insurance as you grow older."

[aswanson]

If I give up and sell out, at least I'll have a comfy position at a respectable company where people smarter than me would respect what I have to offer because I have 6 years worth of thinking about the problem on them.

No they won't. You'll be a part of a dispirited bureauacracy, and nobody will care. They probably won't even finish the project.

Your best bet is to get a bunch of young college age programmers to work with you. They are unemployed and are ready to hit it out of the park. If I was in NYC I would hear you out and try to help. Start looking for talent where the people are hungry.

[NSX2]

> our best bet is to get a bunch of young college age > programmers to work with you.

Columbia couldn't seem to care less, and the entire NYU structure has so far gotten ... hold your breath ... 2 resumes. Only one of which was remotely relevant, but not experienced enough to take initiative on this.

And since I'm not a programmer, I don't have the experience to provide guidance in that department.

I don't know why, but NY is not very start-uppity at all. People here fantasize about going to work for the IT dept. of Morgan Stanley or something.

[trevelyan]

Give up. You're six years into a development project that requires programmers but you don't have any programmers. You seem to think that a company will hire you because you have experience - if your work is really that valuable why haven't they hired you already?

Get a job and continue to work on this in your spare time. Fund development and be smart about making what you build as generally-useful as possible (an enabling technology rather than a solution). If the market pans out for this other company, there will be opportunities for you... assuming you executed.

[aggieben]

It strikes me as odd that you've been noodling for 6 years an idea that needs programmers to implement, but you haven't become a programmer yourself in all that time.

Do you have any idea how many "Learn X in 21 Days" books you can read in 6 years? :-)

[epi0Bauqu]

If you have valuable knowledge that no one else has (or can easily get), and you need programmers, why don't you share what you can here and see if anyone wants to join you? Presumably you can share enough to give people an idea of what you are doing?

[NSX2]

If I could find some programmers who won't dismiss my value after I've transferred my insights, I'd gladly do it. But judging from the thinking processes of what I see on posts here ...

Just to give an example, a few days ago a "bored developer" posted a post saying he was looking for good ideas. Whenever I see MBA/Financial-types posting on Hacker News looking for programmers, the response is usually, "Why should I partner with you - what value do you offer since you can't code?"

So I asked a simple question on this post: Suppose I share some ideas with you that you wind up developing. What do you offer in return? I was hoping maybe an arrangement like "I'll code on the weekends for your idea if you share an idea I like enough to pursue" or something. Instead everybody kept downmodding my post; last time I checked it was in the negative something range.

So if I can find people willing to go it on equal terms ...

[SwellJoe]

You've made the mistake of believing an idea has value. It doesn't. An idea plus a good execution of it has value. If you can't convince a developer that you bring needed value to the execution of that idea, and you can't pay developers to work on your idea, then you have nothing.

In six years you could have learned to program well enough to build a kickass demo--the fact that you haven't makes it pretty clear to developers that you don't believe in your idea enough to commit your own time to it (other than, apparently, thinking really hard about it)...but you'd be really happy to have someone else commit time to it and share the results with you. Hell, with the quality of modern tools, if you started today, you could have a proof of concept running in a year, even if you've never seen a terminal or a text editor before. Python, Ruby, Perl, and even PHP, make developing simple applications, well, simple.

Sorry if I seem to be dismissing you without knowledge of your idea or your actual work in the field, but this is what you're facing in trying to get someone to write your software for you, for free. This is what you have to overcome, and I hope I've made it clear that the way you are presenting it is not going to do that. What you think you're saying, and what an engineer hears you saying, are apparently two very different things. I suspect you think you're saying, "I've done all of the legwork and research and hard work leading up to actual development, and now I just need a technical person to put these well-researched pieces together." But, an engineer hears, "I've done nothing but have super cool ideas for the past six years, and now I'd like you to implement my vague and over-reaching specifications into a product, for free, and share the results with me."

You can't really blame them for not signing on, right?

[NSX2]

> You've made the mistake of believing an idea has value. > It doesn't.

I didn't put much credibility in this line of reasoning before, and now that I found out that major companies are putting millions into just reasearching this idea, I put even less. Crap executed brilliantly is still crap.

> and you can't pay developers to work on your idea

Actually, the money's not the problem. I can raise the money but I'd like to put a demo together as I imagine that would get far better terms. But ultimately if all else fails I'll get the money and hire. My only thought was that I'd prefer to share with a good technical partner that I worked well with than keep a lot and "hire" as you put it.

> In six years you could have learned to program well > enough to build a kickass demo--the fact that you > haven't makes it pretty clear to developers that you > don't believe in your idea enough to commit your own > time to it (other than, apparently, thinking really hard > about it)

In six years I spent most of my personal time single-handedly researching and interacting with something that it's now taking, from what I was told, a starting team of about 15 IBM research guys to just to START looking into. And that part is only half the total idea. They'll never in 10 years get to the second part. When exactly was I supposed to find the time to program on top of this? Not to mention that it wasn't immediately obvious that it would even be feasible. And as for "committing my own time to it" ... I think actively researching it for 6 years is a lot of time to commit to anything, considering I got no financial/academic/professional compensation/recognition.

> ...but you'd be really happy to have someone else commit > time to it and share the results with you.

Share the results with me? So let's see ... I came up with it, spent years researching the feasibility of it, the market is huge, and I have the connections to get financing, and somebody who'd code it would be "sharing the results with me?" Wow. Does it get lonely up there on your pedestal?

You don't have to commit time to it. But that's what startups are about - they're not for everyone, but some people decide, "this is a good thing to commit time to". And they wouldn't be doing it "for me" they'd be doing it for the "results" as you put it, none of which would be possible if I didn't explicity explain what they should be commiting their time to in the first place.

> Hell, with the quality of modern tools, if you started > today, you could have a proof of concept running in a > year

You inspire me! Hell, if I start today, maybe in a year I can learn enough about combustible engines and transmissions to tell my mechanic to shove it.

And in a year I'll be having back surgery. Maybe if I get started today, I can learn enough about the human body and related surgical proceedures to tell my surgeon to go shove it.

Come to think of it, why did I just waste all this money on an Apple computer. I should pocket the money, learn to build my own computer from scratch, and tell Apple to shove it.

Hell, why did I buy these jeans? I should have grown some hemp and made my own pants. That would show Levis!

> in trying to get someone to write your software for you, > for free.

"For me for free" would mean you write it, I keep all the equity and I use the subsequent investment I can get with my personal contacts to pay myself a hefty salary.

I'd imagine there would be some equity exchange and any subsequent investment follow-on would be split, hence it's not "for me" its for themselves.

And since I'm not a programmer and this is not college, it's not "my software" as if though it was a homework assignment or something.

> But, an engineer hears, "I've done nothing but have > super cool ideas for the past six years, and now I'd > like you to implement my vague and over-reaching > specifications into a product, for free, and share the > results with me."

Well, where to start. First, considering all the crap on the internet, I'd say having a really cool idea is a good start. It's better than most people have had so far. As for "my vague and over-reaching specifications" I think you're having a flashback of some bad work experience here. I never gave you any specifications, specific or vague, so I don't know what you're refering to. And I'd imagine it to be a two way street where specifications would be arrived at as a result of communication, continuously, back and forth.

As for the "for free" part, see above. As for the "and share the results with me." part ... well, I'll tell you what. I'll keep my idea and financial contacts to myself, and you can keep all the results you get from not working with me on this idea all to yourself while I keep looking for other people. That way you make all the big bucks all by yourself. Don't spend it all in one place ...

[tim2]

> progress has been so slow. Friends have drifted away

Same here....

[whacked_new]

I have a friend who's been through a similar position, except in the hardware world. Last year he got a full time job, and while he says he still wants to pursue his idea, the likelihood is diminishing every day. Just for reference, he's a Ph.D. just above 30, and his idea comes from something he discovered coincidentally from his research.

If it is really a good idea, find a partner who complements your skills. Assembling a team is probably the hardest part. If you can't assemble one, all odds are against you, no matter how good the idea is. If you don't have people at your disposal, you have to convince other people the idea is good; you'll have to prove it some way or another.

If you're like my friend, who has extensive knowledge beyond what competitors would have in several years, the idea is unobvious enough that even if you outline it understandably, you don't have worries about competitors. If it isn't at that level of sophistication, my bet is that even if competitors haven't thought through things as thoroughly as you have, they will have implementations that are simply good enough.