[eukaryote]

I was surprised in this article that "wine-dark" is still being bandied about as a translation for οἶνοψ πόντος. According to a scholar I spoke with many years ago, a more reasonable translation would be gleaming or shimmering. This would fit with another known use of οἶνοψ, referring to the back of an oxen in the sun.

[twoodfin]

It's hard for me to believe that "gleaming" or "shimmering" would be an objectively better translation. Even putting aside that it's a beautiful turn of phrase, Homer's audience would have been conscious of the simile suggested by the word choice, no?

[eukaryote]

I do agree wine-dark is a beautiful turn of phrase, but from what I gather the literal translation is "wine-faced" or "wine-eyed".

Have considerable experience of being "wine-eyed", I can assure you my eyes are generally gleaming. :-)

[ysavir]

Yeah, I don't know why scholars approach ancient texts as though figurative writing was not available to them, and that their words can be taken at face value, without a need for understanding a variety of applicable contexts.

[SilasX]

Well, they tried coordinating on some marker to indicate when a particular usage was non-figurative, but then, people started using that marker figuratively, as a generic intensifier, which broke the protocol...

[DonaldFisk]

Liddell and Scott translates as wine-coloured or wine-dark, when used as an epithet of the sea, or wine-red or deep red, when used to describe oxen.

https://archive.org/stream/greekenglishlex00lidduoft#page/10...

[smogcutter]

I recall "wine-dark" for oinodakruo, but it's been a while since school.