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by readhn 3556 days ago
If there is solid evidence and especially if there are multiple witnesses then this should be taken to court!

Im not sure who the defendant should be on the Russian side, the ministry of defense?

3 comments

It depends. One possible way is to request FSB to investigate based on presented evidence (illegal supplies of military equipment are their scope of responsibility and we do know that these supplies were not authorized in accordance to Russian laws). If they will not start investigation, then report to the Office of Russian Prosecutor's General. If prosecutors reject the case, go to local court and then up to the Supreme Court. If no success there, go to the European Court of Human Rights and sue Russian Federation. If Russia loses in ECHR, Ministry of Finances will be responsible for paying damages. If (very unlikely, but possible) FSB agrees to investigate and finds the responsible people, likely, it will also find that they were on duty when supplies of equipment took place and, thus, Ministry of Finances of Russian Federation will be responsible for paying damages.
> If there is solid evidence and especially if there are multiple witnesses then this should be taken to court!

Which court?

National courts first, then European Court of Human Rights if they will not win in national courts.

Based on this report relatives of victims can sue in ECHR all involved parties, including both Russian Federation (for providing military equipment to separatists) and Ukraine (for not closing air space for civil flights).

that's a question for lawyers out there. im sure there are precedents in our history.

Track down who gave the order and sue them! Does not matter who it is - P. or his buddies.

Otherwise what is the point of this "investigation"?

There are precedents: they are called world wars.
haha sure. no one is going to world war III over this! I hope you realize this.

What needs to happen is proper legal process and some heads need to roll at the Russian ministry of defense.

When countries do this it is either a war or nothing.
im sure you are kidding. no one is going to war with Russia anytime soon! lol

..so it is likely to be a nothing.

Even more sanctions
Sanctions are a dirty western political trick just so the politicians here can say "we did something".

Sanctions are useless!

Do you know who they affect? Regular people ONLY. Who have no say in politics anymore over there (elections are rigged).

Facts:

1. Top Russian government officials transferred their assets to Europe / USA over the years. They have their families and kids living abroad and going to European/American universities. 2. They have assets offshore not affected by russian currency fluctuations. Most have dual citizenships.

If you want to hit them hard: arrest their wealth offshore; kick out their families from usa/europe.

Why is that not happening? Why are we still allowing illegal wealth transfer through use of offshores?

Why is prime-minister of Russia allowed to own a $20mil apartment in London?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3182636/Vladimir-Put...

Whats sanctions? Against who? Its a big joke!

It's not that simple.

You want to arrest all assets of powerful Russians offshore? I hope you are ready to face pissed off Shell or Mitsubishi CEOs, after their assets in Russia are arrested too.

In addition, you would be playing how Russian government want you: they told their oligarchs last year, that the time to repatriate everything is now (2015). You would be awarding those who listened to that advice and penalize those who didn't. What could possibly go wrong? ;)

of course its not that simple. simply because this is how corruption operates in the west as well. they use similar channels and ways to hide/legitimize questionable profits.
The point is to ruin Russia to the point they become North Korea and cannot afford the upkeep for it's military. Regular people? Boo-fucking-hoo. Maybe if they get off their asses and stop the Putin's insanity...but who are we kidding? People there dream of good old soviet imperium
Ruining russian military? You mean rusting tanks from the 60's or expired rockets from cold war era? The military can not compete with the west anymore.

People there stopped dreaming in the 90's when the ugly side of "new Russia" showed its face. As i said election process is rigged, many folks there want change. please, do not believe 75%+ public support ratings spewed out by state propaganda machines. they are simply untrue.

Lots of folks are ashamed of conflict with Ukraine but unfortunately there is no political and social platform that allows to do anything about this. Anything thats against the state agenda gets nipped in the bud.

Who is prime-minister of Russia?
Igor Shuvalov, officially worth half a billion dollars. Has properties all over europe, his wife flies their dogs (corgis) all over europe for dog shows ... on a private bombardier business jet... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3695649/Vladimir-Put...

nice to be a pro-P. politician in Russia... sanctions somehow skipped out on this poor bloke...