[maxwell]

Another is to be a crappy language. Java is a big platform with a dumb interface; it's the Anti-Lisp. It's a deformity on the programming language tree of life, encasing all those terrible procedural habits and style into another layer of complexity. You have to say everything three or four times. How does anyone put up with it?

[apathy]

The best ''Java'' theme I have ever seen was the old Perl Journal issue with 'Special Java edition!' on the cover.

It a cup of coffee in which damp cigarette butts bobbed about.

God I miss TPJ. Say what you like about the language, there has never been a significantly more interesting programming journal (to my knowledge) than TPJ.

[cstejerean]

I've used Java successfully on a number of projects. If you have a good IDE a lot of the fluff is taken care of for you (try writing Lisp in Notepad, it isn't much fun either).

I see Java as a good C++ replacement. I refuse to write anything in Java that I wouldn't want to write in C++ (for example I've refused to do web programming in Java).

[apathy]

There are some fantastic libraries in Java.

Your approach to it seems reasonable, although I find myself writing extension modules (for R, PHP, Python, Perl even) in regular old C... not because I particularly dislike C++ or Java, but because if I can get away with just C, it's less likely that I'll step in a template-error or uncaught-exception shitstorm with a 10-page backtrace.

[cstejerean]

Thanks for pointing that out.

I should have stated this in my comment, but I don't like C++ much (which is why I'd rather use Java over C++). But I absolutely love regular old C. It's a beautiful, simple programming language. I think C is a perfect language for implementing programming languages, libraries and operating system.

[trevelyan]

I quite like C++. Java is a nice language but is absolute hell to develop iterative web applications with at any reasonable speed. You need a sophisticated in-house division of labour to really use it effectively.

The real danger of the java language is that it's hostile to lean/agile development. If you're in a market that iterates quickly, that can be a real problem. If you work for a bank... less so.

[cstejerean]

And you find C++ easier for developing iterative web applications?

Just to make it clear, I will never use Java (or PHP for that matter) to develop web applications.

[procrastitron]

Actually, for systems programming (kernels and languages) I would want a language with a strong (preferably static) type system.

[yters]

Interesting factoid: one of the potential languages for Sun's VM was a variant of Scheme. Unfortunately, it lost to Java.