[grecy]

> Imagine if this type of thing happened in real-life. You walk out the door in the morning and you’re immediately attacked by Parul, Kevin, and Amelie.

I laughed out loud at this, because it's exactly what I'm experiencing now in West Africa.

Street vendors are aggressive about selling whatever they have, and they seem to assume I want it - almost like I owe it to them to buy it - I'm not sure if it's because I'm White, or it's just their standard procedure for everyone that walks by.

On my 3 minute walk to the local store, I get a minimum of 10 people in my face, trying to sell me cell phone recharge cards, peanuts and limes. Every single day I say no thanks, every single day they try again, sometimes even on the walk back.

I've tried ignoring them or not responding at all, and that usually makes it worse - they'll yell louder and louder (assuming I have not heard), hiss, make a kissing noise, and eventually put themselves in my way so I'm forced to acknowledge them.

Amazingly, even when I do buy something, and I clearly have it in my hand (a bunch of carrots for example), every single street vendor selling carrots will still try with 100% effort to sell me carrots.

[bigdubs]

Obviously not the same but I've had this happen in a couple places and I just say "FUCK OFF" as loud as I can and get visibly upset and they leave me alone after that.

[adekok]

I've done the same with similar people in Europe. If they don't understand a polite but firm "No", and keep bugging me, then a firm "FUCK OFF" is what they deserve.

Oddly, I've never had any animosity returned. Just a shrug of "Oh well, I tried".

[grecy]

....That's a horrible way to react. I wonder what these people think about you and your country of origin. You are, after all, an ambassador for your country when ever you are outside it.

[bigtunacan]

This response just shows you are unfamiliar with these types of encounters or at the very least accepted behavior in such situations.

In one area I used to live in the general "proper" behavior when you are approached by street vendors or beggars was essentially 3 phase.

1) Ignore unless you intend to buy or give. This means you do not reply to anything they say or even make eye contact.

2) Engage verbally or even just visually. This means you intend to buy or give. Now you will be pressured and given an aggressive sell/ask.

3) If it was a mistaken engagement or you don't reach an agreement you MUST aggressively exit. This often means yelling, possibly swearing, and in some cases even putting your hands on someone and even verbally threatening in bad situations.

I spent a significant enough amount of my childhood growing up in this type of culture. My wife was always from a small city. When we later moved I explained to her that this was a big cultural difference than she was used to and the expected way to behave in these situations.

Being from a small city she thought this was disrespectful and continually made things, putting it lightly, more difficult for us.

Eventually it actually put us in a situation that escalated to being dangerous. A seller that she responded to with small talk became very angry that she had wasted his time. He then got in her face, put a hand on her shoulder and started screaming at her.

At that point I ran over, pushed the man off of her and said, "She doesn't fucking want anything. Now get the fuck out of our faces before I have to kick your ass."

After that happened she finally took my advice.

[pavel_lishin]

Where did you grow up where that's the norm? It sounds, uh, interesting.

[mixmastamyk]

It's quite common across the "third world," sorry can't think up a better term right now. But I've encountered very aggressive touts from India to Bahia, Brazil.

[hoorayimhelping]

>....That's a horrible way to react.

Only if you operate under the assumption that they share your values. They may be accosting you because they see you as weak, and you may be representing your country or ethnicity poorly in their eyes.

[imjustsaying]

This is dangerous advice.

There's been times where I've had hawkers and hasslers continually pester me, where I would ignore them or politely decline while walking away, yet they would begin touching me or continually follow me, leading to attempted pickpocketing, robbery, and sexual assault.

Some will touch you on the shoulder, others will maintain some distance and continually get closer to you only to make a swipe at your pocket then try to run away with your cell phone or wallet (happened to me twice).

One trinket-selling "monk" followed me into a building and grabbed me, but I managed to get back outside.

Another person followed me into three different public bathrooms, which I kept having to exit after he continually followed me and went to the urinal next to me so he could look over at my penis. Eventually he stopped only after I walked by a security guard and yelled about what he was doing.

It is 100% OK to yell at any hustler whom you are walking away from but is still following you. Not doing so was always how the aforementioned scenarios began.

They know your vulnerability is your politeness, your "ambassador" mentality. Don't remain vulnerable when they cross the line and keep following you.

[timbowhite]

Are you being serious?

> I wonder what these people think about you

If they're acting at all as GP described, then it's obvious they see you as another mark to aggressively try to extract money from.

Caring about what some bothersome strangers think about you and where you're from takes a distant backseat to standing up to aggression.

[grecy]

> Are you being serious?

I am.

I'm the guy who wrote the story, maybe I did a bad job. It's not like they're getting violent or "trying to extract money from me" - jeez, when you do buy something you can just hold out a handful of money and they'll take the right amount - extremely, extremely honest.

In reality, they're just trying to sell their stuff, I don't understand why someone would react by yelling and getting angry.

[Symbiote]

People are discussing very different situations.

You're describing routine purchases in (perhaps) a market in West Africa, probably with few tourists around. The hawkers aren't making any money from dishonest sales to tourists, and sales are probably reasonably consistent. Repeat customers are common.

The others are describing very popular tourist areas in poorer parts of Europe. All their money comes from tourists, sales rise and fall frequently, there are no repeat customers, and there is strong competition between hawkers for the best places, and possibly efforts to keep newcomers out of the trade.

[CapitalistCartr]

Because it works. Its simply experimenting with different reactions until achieving the desired effect. I want to communicate disinterest in buying from street vendors. I try various forms/styles of communication until I accomplish my goal. I've had this problem in the USA, and merely looking unfriendly is often sufficient. In your situation, that's clearly inadequate.

[enraged_camel]

>>Because it works.

So does spam. That's why spammers keep sending it.

Does that mean it's OK? Clearly not.

[timbowhite]

Hmm different strokes I suppose, but I'd definitely interpret that behavior as aggression.

Out of curiosity, if they weren't trying to sell you anything, but were behaving like that (hissing/kissing/blocking your path), do you think getting angry would then be an appropriate response?

[ryanlol]

>In reality, they're just trying to sell their stuff, I don't understand why someone would react by yelling and getting angry.

In that case what you're doing seems to be significantly worse than saying "fuck off".

Maliciously wasting their time vs making it clear you aren't interested?

FWIW, I don't think there's anything wrong with what you're doing. I just think it's objectively worse than "yelling and getting angry".

[bigdubs]

It's not my first reaction, it's not something I do when I'm traveling, but it's either be slightly loud and aggressive or just suffer in silence. I chose the former.

[chrisan]

Having just returned from a trip to England, whenever we were in touristy areas we saw a very high increase in the level of aggressiveness/pushiness while waiting in queues with certain foreign cultures.

At first we suffered in silence, thinking "well that's just the way they behave in their country", but towards the end we were very direct and to their face when being rude to finally get them to stop.

[craigsmansion]

Well, for some countries being an ambassador actually means being a rude, obnoxious asshole. They're just doing their duty and sharing their cultural values.

[35bge57dtjku]

You sound like you clearly have no basis for offering this questionable advice, to put it very politely.

[jm547ster]

Mr everyone's hero

[calebsurfs]

Locals usually have a way to get rid of street vendors that is effective, so finding out what that is in your locality is a good idea.

In Mexico, it's Hoy no (Not today) and it works pretty well.

[fernly]

Yeah, on a tour of the highlights of Istanbul we were taught the word is YOK! which in Turkish basically means "it does not exist" or "cancel" or something. It worked.

[craigsmansion]

Why bother with that if you feel perfectly self-entitled, judging by the comments, to be aggressive and yell crude language at people who are just trying to make a living in a manner or cultural context you don't understand or want to have anything to do with?

[Gustomaximus]

I like where your thoughts are coming from. I also have a solid guess you've never experienced this enviroment. Imagine being swamped by a group of people that physically get in your way, shifting to stay in-front of you when you try and go around. You simply can't progress from people trying to get you to buy goods you really have no interest in. Your stuck for minutes at a time multiple times a block. Now imagine this happening EVERY day when you try and walk down the street outside your home/hotel.

Yes first couple of hours, maybe days, you will be polite and expect these values returned. But they wont be. Anything less than aggressive behavior is taken as sales potential. Quickly you will realise should you want to be able to walk down the street you must get rude fast to anyone that crosses the line. Some previous advice in this thread is good, avoid eye contact. If they respect that they can call out etc. As soon as they physically get in your space you need to let them know this is not acceptable. Polite simply doesn't work. Its not being self entitled. Its the cultural necessity of some countries.

[craigsmansion]

> I also have a solid guess you've never experienced this environment.

Maybe there are worse environments that I have never experienced and where outright rudeness is the only answer, but as described I have experienced it and never had to resort to anything more than:

- keep moving at a firm pace

- avoid eye contact

- hold a hand up, palm outward, preemptively, as you move (I'm not a tourist, I work here)

- as a last resort, speak loudly and sternly in a local language without addressing anyone directly, "No, thank you," or "No!"

It's still rude, but I feel a far cry from defaulting to yelling obscenities and getting agitated.

As I said, maybe there are environments where that doesn't work, or maybe it just works for me. But defaulting to rudeness without even attempting to figure out the appropriate measure of sternness in a place where you are, for most intents and purposes, a guest, is poor form.

Yes, it is annoying, but nevertheless, you are in their country, and they are trying to make an honest (not counting the overpricing of their goods) living. If someone can't handle that, maybe they shouldn't have gone there.

[Dayshine]

>- keep moving at a firm pace

>- hold a hand up, palm outward, preemptively, as you move (I'm not a tourist, I work here)

What, push people out of the way?

And now that you've touched someone, they'll touch back...

[craigsmansion]

I didn't mean stretch your arm out for pushing, just hold your hand up to create some extra space in front of your face and signal you have no interest and you're in a hurry. It also helps avoiding eye contact.

[landryraccoon]

> to be aggressive and yell crude language at people who are just trying to make a living in a manner or cultural context you don't understand or want to have anything to do with?

You're making a cultural assumption that the locals aren't rude to the hawkers. This is incorrect. The hawkers in fact are taking advantage of your unusual, culturally incorrect assumption that street hawkers shouldn't be treated aggressively, which is why tourists are their prefered market. How do you know the locals aren't quite rude or abrupt with the hawkers as well?

[bitwize]

Osaka was once the commerce center of old Japan, and to a certain extent that legacy remains: Osaka street and open-shop vendors give no fucks and seem to really crave that tourist money in particular. It's not as bad as you've described, but you can expect to be called out to by every corner fashion boutique salesgirl or streetside takoyaki vendor. Some even go to the length of learning English.

The upside of this is that people don't shy away from Westerners the way they do in Tokyo, which makes for a smootger experience if you enjoy talking to natives.

[pbhjpbhj]

>every single street vendor selling carrots will still try with 100% effort to sell me carrots //

It's like giving in to a nagging child - they now know that you're an easy mark and will be even more determined to break you because they now know they can. You bought carrots from someone else, probably to stop them hassling you, so now if I want to sell t you I know if I'm annoying enough the chances are high you'll buy from me too.

[pmorici]

Maybe that is where they came up with ad re-targeting.

[Alexey_Nigin]

I had a similar experience in Thessaloniki, Greece. In this city, there is a famous tourist attraction called The White Tower (which has grey color, by the way). One day, I had to wait in Thessaloniki for a couple of hours, and I decided that it would be a great idea to sit down near the tower.

Well, it turned out to be a bad idea. A few hundred meters from the tower, I was greeted by someone who self-identified as a "friend from Jamaica". He tried to advertise something, but walked away after I asked him politely. As I continued my journey, I met more and more of these "friends". When I eventually reached the tower, I discovered that about 10 of these guys were circling around it. They were all very polite, but they advertised their stuff every time they stumbled upon me, which happened about once per minute. After some time, I decided to find a different place to rest.

[jungletek]

Sounds like The White Tower in Thessaloniki is the street-level weed spot...

[huehehue]

If you've ever been to NYC, this is pretty much the tour bus ticket salesmen. Some will follow you from behind with their arms outstretched in front of your face, flashing tour bus tickets.

After a particularly stressful day, one guy decides to take it upon himself to follow me like that for the better part of a city block. Ignoring him wasn't working, so I (honestly quite gently) brushed his hand out of my face, and the guy goes off, threatening to call the police and pulling in bystanders, asking if they just witnessed the terrible assault I've committed.

I guess the moral of the story is, don't work near Times Square.

[mancerayder]

I worked in Times Square for several years for two separate companies. I could make a long list of reasons why this is a disagreeable area to traverse twice a day, but that would be an emotive digression.

Instead I'll tell you what we locals do. You'll never be bothered by any vendor again. You do this : walk quickly, purposefully, scarcely making eye contact with your surroundings. Zig zag through crowds like it's destiny.

Perhaps I've made a terrible impression on the tourists I push past, but the signal I give off to vendors is, "I'm not in scope." I even act as a sort of sociopathic enforcer, particularly against those bus tour guys who stand in busy sidewalk areas with their signs.

I have intense familiarity with NYC Paris and London,having lived in all of these places. Being polite or nice or understanding to a random stranger on the sidewalk that wants something from me aggressively is to me a test to see whether I'm a sucker. Whether I'm vulnerable.

Save your politeness for people who aren't hustlers.

[rhizome]

Next time: sneeze on their hands.

[paulddraper]

Assault with a deadly weapon, depending on your germs.

[rhizome]

Somebody sticks their hands in my face just as I'm about to sneeze, you're gonna have a hard time proving that one, assuming anything projected from a sneeze could possibly constitute a deadly weapon. A ham sandwich would be too large, and an unrealistic example.

[McP]

I found that just looking at them with an unconcerned, disinterested expression, then carrying on my way did the trick.

[imgabe]

I had a similar experience in China and found it very helpful that a friend told me how to say "I don't want it" in Mandarin (Bu yao). Vendors will ignore your polite "No thank yous" in English, but they went away much faster after speaking their own language.

[dylanz]

I was in Kraków and experienced something like this, albeit... possibly not as bad. I would put in headphones (a white and visible pair), and people would leave me alone.