[dogma1138]

Yes, DigitalFoundry (they aren't 100% correct all the time, especially when developers introduce a new technique for example when Ubisoft revealed that they are rendering at 960x1080 and upscaling but to their defense the upscale was so good that even their tools did not notice it) and a few other websites constantly do actual frame by frame analysis, many games on the PS4 run at 900p especially the competitive titles that need a lock to 60.

Beyond that letterboxing and resolution scaling is still common, while the PS4 doesn't drop to 720p like the XboxOne does it does do a lot of 900p titles or 30fps locked titles (which on many it can still fail to live upto the 30fps lock).

Even some exclusive titles which usually run on 1080p on their respective console to not do 1080p on the PS4 KillZone and Uncharted 4 both run at 900p.

But overall it doesn't matter the 720p + TAA & Vsync on the XboxOne a lot of times produces better frame times than the 800-900p PS4 versions, some of the COD games and Titanfall were pretty good examples of that where the PS4 running at 1080p or close to it had major issues with frame timing.

What I would suggest is that if you care for 4K gaming buy a PC, consoles aren't going to get there, even the new Titan X can drop below 60fps on 4K on some titles ;)

Overall I wonder more about the CPU upgrades than the GPU, both the XboxOne and the PS4 have started to hit the CPU bottleneck hard fairly quickly and games which are CPU intensive like open world games, racing games and sim suffered.

[pandaman]

There are not that many 60fps games, so saying that those are sometimes not full 1080p is a far cry from the original claim that number of 1080p games is slim.

PS.PS4 Titanfall? Can we seriously continue the discussion of hardware merits when you casually mention problems with games, which don't even exist?

[dogma1138]

Titanfall 2 it's in MP beta for quite some time now ;) Usually on the PS4 it's either 1080p or 60fps take your pick, but more demanding FPS titles like Battlefield 4, Battlefront and the rest usually do 900p on the PS4 =)

If you consider 1080p @ 30 to be "true 1080p" then you are set, but for the many people if it's not running at 60 it might as well not run at all.

[pandaman]

> Titanfall 2 it's in MP beta for quite some time now ;)

Either way you are complaining about a game, which has not been released.

>Usually on the PS4 it's either 1080p or 60fps take your pick

Yes. And there are not many 60 fps games so most games are 1080p.

> but for the many people if it's not running at 60 it might as well not run at all

Which is a valid point you probably should have disclosed before saying that there are no 4k and 1080p games, because much more people don't really care about 60 fps.

[dogma1138]

>Which is a valid point you probably should have disclosed before saying that there are no 4k and 1080p games, because much more people don't really care about 60 fps.

Because it's true, and most people and most games to care about frame rates, even Sony admitted that most games won't run at true 4K but will use upscaling.

"For all you pixel-counters out there, note that the games Sony showed yesterday don't seem to be rendered in "native" 4K. While the Pro system is capable of outputting full-resolution 4K images and games, it's not really powerful enough to do so while rendering the kinds of realistic 3D worlds with the level of detail we've come to expect from big-budget games."

"While some retro-styled 2D or low-polygon 3D games might be able to produce a full 3840 x 2160 frame buffer at least 30 times a second, most games will run internally at a lower resolution. Sony says that the Pro will make use of an internal rendering pipeline and techniques that help fill in those missing pixels on the display. Insomniac CTO Al Hastings said the difference between "native" 4K and the PS4 Pro's output should be "nearly indistinguishable.""

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/09/eyes-on-dont-expect-a-...

The hardware of the PS4pro is less suitable to true 4K gaming than the PS4 is for 1080p, you are going to see major upscaling but it's ok, we're gotten pretty good at it. For the most part I expect most games to render at 1920x2160 or 1440x1620 and be upscaled.

[pandaman]

>Because it's true, and most people and most games to care about frame rates

If it's been true then 30fps games like GTA, AC, Elder Scrolls series, GT, RE, FF etc, etc had not been selling crazy millions of units.

And yes, not all 4k games are rendering everything into a single 4k buffer, modern games are a bit more complicated than what was around in 90s. It's silly to complain about this IMHO, because 4k movies also don't have 8M full pixels for every frame either.

[dogma1138]

>And yes, not all 4k games are rendering everything into a single 4k buffer.

Games haven't been using a single buffer for ages, however games on the PC do render at a native resolution or higher (if you use render target supersampling).

Console games render at sub-display buffer resolutions all the time and use upscaling, which is what I was saying from the first post I don't even know what you are are arguing about. The point is that calling either PS4pro or Xbox Scorpio a 4K gaming system is misleading at best, because as far as the frame resolution target they are going to be considerably more off from 4K than their current counterparts are from 1080p.

>If it's been true then 30fps games like GTA, AC, Elder Scrolls series, GT, RE, FF etc, etc had not been selling crazy millions of units.

GTA5 had major FPS issues on both consoles it was one of the major complaints, AC has major issues on both consoles, etc. Those games sell like crazy because they are huge franchises it doesn't mean the experience is good. FPS games understand that they need 60fps and they stick to that often by drastically reducing the render target, because otherwise they are near unplayable even on consoles that already suffer from a pretty big input delay.

But sure if you accept <30 fps gaming with major screen tearing and frame time inconsistencies as a decent experience all the power to you, but let's call it what it is the minimal functional experience that these consoles can provide, it ain't a very pleasant one.