[josemrb]

> what's weird is the fact that we do sometimes kill ourselves when things look completely hopeless.

The hope is always there, just change the purpose.

Instead of a life without suffering one expects to end the pain.

That is the final hope that the suicidal people embrace.

[goatforce5]

For most of us, committing suicide is unimaginable.

Sometimes people find themselves in situations where the unimaginable is a better option than whatever it is they're facing. The act is equally horrific, but preferable to the alternative.

> At least 200 people are believed to have fallen or jumped to their deaths [from the World Trade Centre on 9/11] while other estimates say the number is half of that or fewer.

[...]

> The New York City medical examiner's office said it does not classify the people who fell to their deaths on September 11 as "jumpers": "A 'jumper' is somebody who goes to the office in the morning knowing that they will commit suicide. These people were forced out by the smoke and flames or blown out."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Falling_Man

[mikeash]

I don't think the WTC jumpers are quite the same. They were faced with certain death or near certain death, and they naturally chose the latter. Falls from a great height are survivable, very very rarely. I see this an example of the human drive to survive: when faced with death, we'll try anything that offers any sort of hope, even just a slight delay.

[goatforce5]

> when faced with death, we'll try anything that offers any sort of hope, even just a slight delay

Many people opt-out of aggressive cancer treatments that may add months on to their lives, and increasingly euthanasia is a (legal) alternative to letting medical conditions run their course.

There are situations where ending things early can be one of the valid choices made available to you.

http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/200381-the-so-called-psychot...

[mikeash]

That's true, but I think there's a big difference between a long-standing condition and a brief crisis. I love the quote you linked to and I think it does a great job at giving people some perspective on what suicidal people are thinking. I just think the analogy falls apart once you start digging into it. Jumping out of the towers was a last-ditch attempt to survive, not just a better way to die.

[goatforce5]

> Jumping out of the towers was a last-ditch attempt to survive

I'm not sure how it's possible to come to that conclusion.

(And to be clear: I wasn't originally trying to suggest that everyone that fell from the WTC made a decision to jump. I think it's probably fair to say almost everyone that fell was simply trying to get away from the smoke by leaning out of windows, etc. )

[mikeash]

I'm not sure how it's not. Certain death in the smoke and fire versus a slim chance of survival if you jump, seems like the rational choice in horrible circumstances.