[mikeash]

That's true, but I think there's a big difference between a long-standing condition and a brief crisis. I love the quote you linked to and I think it does a great job at giving people some perspective on what suicidal people are thinking. I just think the analogy falls apart once you start digging into it. Jumping out of the towers was a last-ditch attempt to survive, not just a better way to die.

[goatforce5]

> Jumping out of the towers was a last-ditch attempt to survive

I'm not sure how it's possible to come to that conclusion.

(And to be clear: I wasn't originally trying to suggest that everyone that fell from the WTC made a decision to jump. I think it's probably fair to say almost everyone that fell was simply trying to get away from the smoke by leaning out of windows, etc. )

[mikeash]

I'm not sure how it's not. Certain death in the smoke and fire versus a slim chance of survival if you jump, seems like the rational choice in horrible circumstances.

[xhedley]

I don't think it was about survival chance. Death by heat sufficient to kill you would surely be extremely painful. Death by fall impact from high enough would at least be quick. As either option was clearly fatal, jumping wasn't a deliberate choice for death and hence wasn't suicide.