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by Saturnaut 3647 days ago
Don't sleep with people you work with. Don't drink if you can't control yourself or can't trust the people you are with. Don't do drugs if you can't control yourself or trust the people you are with. Problem solved!
2 comments

Wow, that's hugely insensitive. Why not try it from another angle and save on typing: "Don't abuse people. Problem solved!"
Well I agree with that statement as well. However, it never hurts to take preventative measures in one's own life, instead of letting yourself get screwed over and then wondering why it happened and who to blame.
Victim blaming is pretty insensitive though, as is "letting yourself get screwed over". There was an infamous case in Australia where a cleric responded to gang-rape by members of his community by labelling young girls in skirts as being like raw meat attracting animals. The implication was "of course the animals will want to eat the meat".

Yes, the reality is that if you never leave the house, live in a panic room, cover your entire self at all hours, etc you reduce the risk, but ultimately the action is on the abuser rather than the one being abused and that is where we should direct criticism, especially in immediate/direct response to something like this IMO.

What are we ideally working towards? A world where everyone must avoid a defined level of risk (including certain level of dress!), or one where any of us can walk anywhere with an expectation that we won't be abused by another one of us? I'd like to think the latter.

Yes, but young girls being forcibly gang raped is a far cry from what is laid out in this article.

Yes, the action is on the abuser. I never once said the blame is on the victim. However, most of what the author has laid out is "He is a jerk, people have said he is a jerk, he takes advantage of people, etc". Not "He forcibly raped me and others." So - as an individual - taking very simple steps, like the ones I outlined in my first comment, are only common sense, and can only work in said individual's favor.

I've read some of this author's other posts, including the one that talks specifically about her relationship with Appelbaum (including consensual sexual acts). Calling her a victim because she was taken advantage of, on the same level the girls in Australia you mentioned who were forcibly gang raped are victims, is absurd.

Edit: Leaving the above alone, but on further inspection, it looks like several people have claimed that he "sexually assaulted" them. Now, if true, they should have reported these things to the police immediately. However, I went ahead and read through the stories on the Appelbaum shame website. In every one of the instances, the victim put themselves in a situation to be taken advantage of by this scumbag - drinking heavily enough to black out with him, sleeping in the same bed as him, etc.

Am I defending him? Hell no. But something has to be said about taking responsibility for one's own safety and well being, and being intelligent about not getting into situations like these.

taking very simple steps, like the ones I outlined in my first comment, are only common sense, and can only work in said individual's favor.

Except rapes do get committed by "trusted" people, so we're left with "common sense" advice that is either massively paranoid or useless.

But something has to be said about taking responsibility for one's own safety and well being, and being intelligent about not getting into situations like these.

The article is "being intelligent about not getting into situations like these". You, on the other hand, seem to be trying for a just world fallacy.

> What are we ideally working towards? A world where everyone must avoid a defined level of risk (including certain level of dress!), or one where any of us can walk anywhere with an expectation that we won't be abused by another one of us? I'd like to think the latter.

The latter...but we have to live in the world as it is, not the world that we hope to someday achieve.

If I were to put on a top of the line Rolex watch, pick up an expensive laptop in one hand, and $100k cash in the other hand, and take a stroll alone at night through a major city's most gang controlled, crime riddled, neighborhood and found myself involuntarily relieved of watch, laptop, and cash, I think people would be justified in putting some of the blame for the robbery on me even though I would also be the victim.

Well, if you really didn't want to get robbed, you should have donated the laptop and cash to charity, donned a tunic and joined a monastery
Tim, these two scenarios are not really comparable.
If you want to compare the events in the article with gang-rape, lets just change the defamation laws so that talking about ones sex life without permission by the other person who was there (first linked story in article) will give you the same amount of years in prison as gang rape.

I am pretty sure that if that happened, people would watch what they said much more.

The problem will never be solved. There are actions a society can take to reduce occurrences of the problem. There are actions individuals can take to reduce their personal risks.
Don't drink if you... can't trust the people you are with.

"3 out of 4 rapes [in the US] are committed by someone known to the victim." https://www.rainn.org/statistics/perpetrators-sexual-violenc...