[Teeboo]

EDIT: Just reviewed your Twitter. It's 2000 tweets of snark and criticism of everything you come across - GoT, other coders, Agile, politics. I doubt we will get anywhere constructive on this thread but my original post remains below.

Original post >>

"Doesn't give him the chops or credibility to tell others how to program or solve problems."

...that cannot be serious. Am actually smiling at that. Also laughing at the idea that modern coders think they have nothing to learn from Grady Booch.

Plinkplonk you are absolutely someone I would never want on my team or contributing to a product I was involved in. Aggressive, combative and dismissive of the precedents that laid the foundations for modern software engineering. You need to mature (my opinion). Your post has not painted you in a flattering light.

But feel free to prove me wrong - in your eyes what DOES give someone the chops to support others with engineering advice? What do they need to have accomplished?

[dang]

We've banned this account. Personal attacks, name-calling, and flamewars, all of which you've made an egregious hash of in this thread, are not allowed on Hacker News.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11861023 and marked it off-topic.

[plinkplonk]

If someone has built significant cutting edge software and/or has proven himself to be a 1 percent engineer, I'll gladly listen to her on matters of engineering. That doesn't make her an expert on say designing space craft.

The point is Booch hasn't written any cutting edge software. He just sold methodology (and books and consulting). Which makes him an expert in selling books and consulting.

I don't want agile gurus/methodology vendors telling me how to do programming. I'll gladly listen to their advice on how to build a career around a methodology. Just a personal preference.

I mean if I wanted to know how to write a 3d game engine, I'll listen to John Carmack or Tim Sweeney, not a methodology consultant. If I wanted advice on investing, I'd listen to someone who has proven chops as an investor - say Warren Buffet.

again, just my personal preference.

I'll ignore the personal attacks and your comments on my twitter account etc, which has nothing to do with my comments here and is borderline stalker behavior.

Whatever floats your boat. All good. This is the internet

[Teeboo]

Not borderline stalker; was just interested in your experience. Was hoping you would blow me away with cutting edge engineering you speak about. shrug

Agile vendors don't tell you how to do your job. They tell you how your job fits within a whole and that whole can be delivered quickly if you play nice with others.

Not surprised you struggle with the concept given your tone. Clearly not a growth mindset and fixated only on your technology.

Nice summary of Booch by the way, neatly side stepping his programming experience and Master's in electrical engineering or his work supporting design patterns. eyeroll

The hate is strong in you.

I would also add, with a little glee, Agile vendors are not going anywhere and you will be listening to them for a long time to come; you know why? Your boss listens to them. Don't be bitter at consultants, the game chose them.

[plinkplonk]

" They tell you how your job fits within a whole and that whole can be delivered quickly if you play nice with others."

These guys have no special expertise in this either. They haven't (mostly) worked on high performance programming teams or led successful companies or launched killer products. But if you give them a chance they'll try to sell you 'methodologies' on all these and more.

They make their living selling ill thought out ideas to clueless middle managers. What makes them experts in "how your work fits into a whole?"

Lol getting a masters in electrical engineering and having written forgotten books on design patterns makes you an expert in how to 'master programming' and work in high performance teams? News to me!

Ignoring your personal attacks as usual. Heh.

[Teeboo]

You understand Booch did not write the master programming list referenced by the OP. (No doubt you will edit to remove that erroneous reference but shrug)

Saying Kent Beck, Ken Schwaber, Jeff Sutherland etc has not led successful companies or worked in high performance programming teams he he he. That's class.

I hope this post is immortalised :-D

So if Agile is ill-thought out, what is not ill-thought out? By all means, you have the stage...