[Semiapies]

Not to snark, but there's a great deal of material on both subjects readily available, and I'm not interested in getting into an argument with a random Canadian or Brit who says eir health care is just awesome. (Hell, my health insurance and health care is pretty awesome, but that can't be generalized to US health care.)

[jmackinn]

Well if you don't want to get into a debate about someone else's healthcare system, of which you have provided no information of, then maybe you shouldn't tell them it sucks.

[Semiapies]

Ah, and here I was vaguely concerned you were asking in good faith and not looking for an opportunity to play through yet another iteration of a health care debate script.

"of which you have no first hand experience"

You know this, of course. And one more person's anecdata would be so revelatory on this issue, breaking through the logjam of regurgitated partisan talking points.

[jmackinn]

Go ahead, I'm waiting to hear why you think it sucks, facts and all. I'm not asking whether one system is better than the other, but why Canada's and the UK's suck.

[Semiapies]

You know, if you'd used a little courtesy instead of psuedo tough-guy rhetoric, I might have mistakenly thought you were sincere and said. :)

Personally, I'm waiting to hear the reason for your apparent ego investment in those two systems.

[madair]

Damn, dude! Fact-free trolling is so karma friendly! I've gotta try that, I've been going about this all wrong!

See, now, I thought that jmackinn's been so very understated and reasonable, thanks for clearing that up for me.

[Semiapies]

Interesting. I'm not going to get into your reflexive, pointless argument of dueling anecdotes and half-assed statistics because I'm talking about something else is now trolling.

[cookiecaper]

Maybe you could make just a small summary? Most of us don't have problems finding research or data if we're interested in something, but it often helps to give a brief synoptic paragraph, and that doesn't entail too much effort, I don't think.

[Semiapies]

It's not a matter of effort, it's the getting into arguments with people like marshallp and jmackinn. I could say the US system involves doctors eating babies, while the UK engages in Druidic blood-sacrifice of virgins, and they'd pop up to say that the NHS still handles blood-sacrifice better, more equitably, and more cheaply than the US system HAHA!.

If you're looking for general pointers, you might try the "Criticism" sections of Wikipedia articles on the NHS of England, articles on the subject by organizations like Cato, and that sort of thing.

[marshallp]

The data says the average brit lives longer and healthier than americans, and the fact that anyone, including temporary visitors can get free healthcare in britain is 'awesome' from the viewpoint of 'humanity' compared to the travesty that is american healthcare.

[yummyfajitas]

The average brit lives 1.2 years longer than the average usian.

Walking 30 min/day adds 1.3 years to your life (source: http://walking.about.com/od/healthbenefits/a/livelonger1105....). Moderate obesity takes 3 years from your life (source: http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/03/090319224823.ht...).

But obviously, none of these factors affect average national life expectancy. Only health care does.

[Semiapies]

That one sentence has quite a bit wrong and not even wrong about it, and that's before I even get to your implicit demand that I defend the US health care system against your boosterism of the British NHS.

This is why I don't argue for or against health care reform.

[marshallp]

There's "material" to support every side of the argument. The only honest data you have are simple measures like life expectancy and costs as percentage of gdp. Universal healthcare clearly trumps any other system in those.

Of course the systems aren't perfect, but they're the best of the alternatives.

[Semiapies]

I don't actually have to be here for this argument with you, right? :)

Oh, Hell, I'll throw you a bone: what happens to comparative life expectancy numbers when you correct for differing definitions of live birth in the US and the UK?

Now, carry on.