[naasking]

> I accept that the computer controlling the VR might be conscious of something while it runs the AI software

But the AI software/algorithm is exactly what would produce the consciousness, if it were possible to do. So if it runs this algorithm individually for each NPC, then each NPC is conscious. And it clearly must run the algorithm individually because each NPC finds itself in different circumstances, and so must respond differently to its environment, even if they all share the same "personality".

> It doesn't use senses the same way you do.

I still don't see why that's relevant. Sensory inputs are still just inputs. The AI algorithm also has such inputs since each NPC must respond to its environment.

[DonaldFisk]

I think we'll end up agreeing to disagree here, but the AI would only be producing the appearance of consciousness in the NPCs. There's absolutely no reason to believe it experiences any of the qualia experienced by the people immersed in the VR. It doesn't see anything or hear anything. Only the people do, via their headsets. It just behaves as if it does, like the people on your television screen.

[naasking]

> There's absolutely no reason to believe it experiences any of the qualia experienced by the people immersed in the VR.

Firstly, NPCs tautologically don't experience the same qualia, but that doesn't mean they don't experience qualia of their own. Like I said, they respond to their environment, which means they have senses of a sort.

> It just behaves as if it does [produce consciousness], like the people on your television screen.

How do you know that? You're merely asserting p-zombies exist, you're not proving it.

[DonaldFisk]

If you were talking about humanoid robots in the physical world, you'd have a point, but in a VR, NPCs exist in much the same way images of people exist on your TV screen. They're not really there. They also exist in the form of data on the computer running the VR, but data can't be conscious either, as it's entirely passive, like words in a book the computer can read from and write to.

[naasking]

> They're not really there.

In what way can you prove you are "really there" in a way that a simulated entity is not? Fundamentally, your matter could very well be a mathematical construct -- see the Mathematical Universe hypothesis, for instance.

> They also exist in the form of data on the computer running the VR, but data can't be conscious either, as it's entirely passive, like words in a book the computer can read from and write to.

Except they're not, because the NPCs respond intelligently to you and their environment, both of which are always changing, so they aren't anything like passive, unchanging data. No one is claiming that data that isn't changing is conscious, but NPCs don't consist of unchanging data. So they could very well be conscious, and you haven't presented an argument why such intelligent responses would not require consciousness, you've merely been asserting it.

And it's not like you don't state that consciousness can't be a computation, because you've said that the game system as a whole might be conscious. So if we agree to assume for the sake of argument that consciousness is a computation, then it will be a particular kind of computation with a certain property, like how sorting algorithms sort their input.

Which means any algorithm that has this property produces consciousness. Furthermore, personality differences and sensory input from their environment would just be parameters to such an algorithm. And if game AI needs this consciousness property to make believably intelligent characters, which is what we've been discussing, then each of the NPCs will run this algorithm with their own personality and environment configurations, and each of them will be conscious.

The best I can infer about your argument is that these computations don't have access to "real" senses, but this point is entirely irrelevant. All AI senses will reduce to a set of numbers anyway, which means even if the "sensory" inputs we hook them up to are entirely simulated, this makes no difference to the consciousness algorithm. Consciousness would be a logical property, so you can't simultaneously accept that the game system could have consciousness, but the individual NPCs would not.

[DonaldFisk]

> Fundamentally, your matter could very well be a mathematical construct.

My consciousness, however, is "really there". It's one of the few things anyone can be sure of.

> And it's not like you don't state that consciousness can't be a computation, because you've said that the game system as a whole might be conscious.

No. I said that the computer controlling the VR could be conscious of something. I should have been more specific about which parts. I meant the CPUs and the GPUs, certainly not the software. Their role in the whole system is the same as the man in the Chinese room. We have his word that he doesn't understand Chinese, but he does experience something. The role of the software is that of the book in the room, with a part of the book where the man can write down intermediate stages in his calculation. Or are you saying that the book is somehow conscious of understanding Chinese simply because there's space in it where the man takes notes?

[naasking]

> My consciousness, however, is "really there".

You didn't answer the question. You can be sure your consciousness exists, and you grant existence to other conscious people no doubt, but you seem certain that AI consciousness is not in a game of AI NPCs that are just as intelligent as humans, yet provide no justification for that.

> Or are you saying that the book is somehow conscious of understanding Chinese simply because there's space in it where the man takes notes?

I'm saying that your attempt to define a "locus" where consciousness resides is futile. A CPU is not a person, even though a person can act like a CPU.

You're effectively asking which line in a sorting algorithm actually does the sorting. All of it does the sorting, and all of the program+scratch memory that produces intelligent behaviour, would produce consciousness as well. The CPU is completely incidental. If you compile your program for a completely different architecture, or take a snapshot and restore it on another computer, the consciousness moves with the program, it does not stay with the CPU on which it was originally running.