[zekevermillion]

Uber runs up against municipal taxi regulators. The DAO runs up against the SEC, DOJ, and state securities regulators, just to focus on the US cops. These people are a bit more serious than the City of Austin transit authority. As we've already seen in multiple cases, e.g., SatoshiDice, US regulators are aware of efforts to use profit-sharing contracts to raise funds, and view this (correctly) as a securities offering that should be registered unless there's a valid exemption. I was on a train some months ago and saw Preet Bharara reading the WSJ. At least I'm pretty sure it was him. How long do you think before a failed DAO crowdfunding ends up on the WSJ front page? If investors lose $100mm you can bet it will get that kind of publicity. Then it's just a matter of identifying the ideal defendant for symbolic punishment. If I were involved in slock.it, I would be careful not to travel through the US.

[darawk]

The DAO exists outside of the laws of the United States. If the US curators are arrested, they will be replaced with non-US residents.

This is the fundamental premise of decentralized systems. They are resilient to the interventions of governments. Bitcoin is definitely illegal in many places in the world, and occupies something of a gray area in the US. Yet, it operates just fine.

[zekevermillion]

The "dao" here is not designed in a way that is truly decentralized. It is susceptible to certain centralizing flaws. There could be a dao that is designed in a way that resists censorship, that would be more interesting.

[bunkydoo]

You've obviously never heard of extradition have you?

[darawk]

No country is going to extradite one of its own citizens for selling a financial product that doesn't happen to be approved by the US SEC and isn't a ponzi scheme / scam (the DAO may be a lot of things, but it is likely not an explicit confidence scheme). Not to mention the fact that there are plenty of countries who won't extradite to the US for any reason.

[zekevermillion]

But I am speaking exactly of the scenario where a dao project curator/contractor is perpetrating a financial crime. In that case, most countries would in fact extradite. If that's even necessary. I mention US laws not b/c I'm in favor of US imperialism but b/c I am familiar with these laws. I'm sure that there are other relevant jurisdictions that would frown upon financial crimes regardless of new age window dressing.

[darawk]

I don't think it's clear that the DAO represents a 'financial crime'. Especially not on the part of the curators. It is an unregulated, unlicensed investment vehicle, but it's certainly not predatory, and especially not on the part of the curators (who are the only arrestable individuals).

[zekevermillion]

The problem as I see it is that a curator could be affiliated with a contractor, and the same person could also hold a large stake of tokens. At some point the dao is not truly decentralized, and the parties with the power to influence voting decisions for their own benefit do not disclose this conflict.

[gst]

I don't know about the law of other countries, but my home country (Austria) does not extradite its own citizens, no matter what the crime is. However, it is possible that you end up in front of an Austrian court, even if you commited the crime in another country. This will only happen in cases where the crime is actually a crime in Austria. Furthermore, the court will use Austrian law, so US law would be quite irrelevant in that case.

There might be an exception when the extradition request is issued by an EU country, but I'm not sure how this would be handled. Afaik the EU requires member states to extradite citizens and non-citizens to other member states. However, (afaik) the law that prevents Austria from extraditing its own nationals is at the constitution level.

[cplease]

Austrian citizens are subject to arrest and direct surrender to other EU states under execution of a European Arrest Warrant without extradition, since 2002. See http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/en/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A3...

Austria did reserve the limited possibility of refusing enforcement of EAWs on its citizen for acts not punishable under Austrian law, but that's it; which is not much different from the optional non-execution provision available to all EU states.

It also has bilateral extradition treaties with other non-EU states including the USA, again, with some reservations for its own citizens. But to say Austria doesn't extradite its citizens is wrong. For most crimes, any other EU state can issue a warrant and have Austrian citizens arrested and summarily removed without any full-blown extradition proceeding.

[ubernostrum]

Not to mention the fact that there are plenty of countries who won't extradite to the US for any reason.

Try setting up a business in one of them and let me know how you like the environment.

[darawk]

You're missing the point. The DAO does not care about the business climate of any particular country. The curators can reside in any country in the world and finance any company anywhere in the world.

[ubernostrum]

So, set up in a repressive place with no extradition to the US, and see how well the "we operate under magical Internet law, it means you can't touch us" defense works there.

[aminok]

The US doesn't rule the world (yet).

[zekevermillion]

We don't and never will. Does that mean that US law is irrelevant? From from it.

[gst]

Yes - US law is pretty irrelevant for most people who live outside the US and who don't do business with the US.

How relevant is China's law for an US citizen who doesn't leave the country?

[aminok]

US law is not applicable in some countries, because they maintain independence from the US legal system.

[Vespasian]

Mulitply this times (countries in the world) and you got a legal abyss the DAO is looking into.

At least german authorities will be interested since Slock.it UG is registered there.

NB: They do not even have a website that is conformant with german law. This is not a big deal, however, it does not strengthen my confidence that these guys are able to create code able to manage a few hundred million dollars crowdfunded capital.