[avukich]

Why would you be interested? Why debate anything? Just jump in and make a comment and then leave because that is the way it should be. I mean that is how all things accomplished right?

The point is that believing that all problems can be solved in non-violent ways is unrealistic. The terrorists who will gladly murder any man, woman, or child to further whatever the hell it is that they are trying to further have never and will never just stop being violent to negotiate. The only way to deal with people who are that radical is through violent means.

Oh and maybe you should get your facts straight. America did not attack Iraq in retaliation for 9/11. America attacked Al Qaeda in Afghanistan in retaliation. America attacked Iraq because in theory there were WMDs there (I will not argue the legitimacy of that because clearly that wasn't the case and in hindsight that was an awful move).

[dragonbonheur]

Your argument falls apart precisely because of the violent and boneheaded nature of American governments. America unleashes its military without thinking of the consequences and there is no excuse for it.

[avukich]

So do tell, how would you have dealt with the terrorists that were responsible for 9/11? Just like every good liberal you have said I am wrong without offering an alternative.

[dragonbonheur]

Do you even remember that Bin Laden and Al Quaeda were funded by the CIA to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan, among other things? America's disastrous history of foreign intervention IS THE CAUSE OF ALL OUR PROBLEMS TO DATE. Don't put your noses where they don't belong and try to learn from your many mistakes. That's all it takes.

[avukich]

Who gets to decide where the US's nose belongs? I am with you that we should never support these knuckleheads like Bin Laden (which we are doing a-freaking-gain with the Syrian resistance), but it certainly has felt a lot like damned if you do, damned if you don't with the US. We get involved in some way and everyone yells that we shouldn't be and if we don't get involved everyone yells that we aren't helping.

Saying that "America's disastrous history of foreign intervention IS THE CAUSE OF ALL OUR PROBLEMS TO DATE" is pretty silly. I bet most of Asia and Europe are pretty darn happy that we intervened during WWI and WWII and I'd be willing to bet that most South Koreans are pretty happy that we intervened during the Korean War lest they be subjects of that little, fat megalomanic Kim Jong Un. Do you disagree with those interventions? If so well then I guess we are done here because we will never agree on anything. If not, then what is the deciding factor on when to get involved and when not to get involved?

The fact of the matter is that we rely on oil from the middle east and we are always going to get involved there because it is in our national interests. Until we have zero reliance on foreign oil that isn't going to change. It would certainly be wonderful if everyone just kept to themselves and we didn't get involved with anything, but that isn't practical. The problems in that area of the world really have very little to do with the US. They have been fighting in the middle east for all of recorded history. Certainly longer than the US has been a nation. Our involvement hasn't helped anything, but I am increasingly of the opinion that nothing will help things over there.

[dragonbonheur]

US involvement in regime change: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r...

35 countries where the U.S. has supported fascists, drug lords and terrorists:

http://www.salon.com/2014/03/08/35_countries_the_u_s_has_bac...

How U.S. Economic Warfare Provoked Japan’s Attack on Pearl Harbor : http://www.independent.org/newsroom/article.asp?id=1930

A timeline of CIA atrocities:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/a-timeline-of-cia-atrocities/53...

>The fact of the matter is that we rely on oil from the middle east and we are always going to get involved there because it is in our national interests.

Are you so proud of your governments being greedy thieves? Go on then. Continue being arrogant dicks to the planet. It is fair game then that you reap what you sow.

As for WW2, Russia won Berlin. The Eastern Front was orders of magnitude more violent and more destructive to human lives than what Western allies fought for.

As for Asia, if the US had left Korea alone Koreans would have gotten rid of the Kim dynasty by 1980. You fail to remember that South Korea was a dictatorship as well until the eighties.

You also fail to remember that unlike the divided Korean peninsula, Vietnam remained whole because the Communists that you were so scared of won that war. Against the USA. And now the Vietnamese government are also your trade partners.

As for the Middle East, their problems have everything to do with you. From your unconditional support of the blatant theft of territory and resources and the atrocities committed by Israel in Palestine, to the overthrowing of the democratically elected government of Iran which led to extremists taking power there, to the Iran Iraq war where you sold weapons to both sides, to the war against Iraq which gave rise to ISIS, to the war against the Syrian government which strengthened ISIS, you are responsible for EVERYTHING. Every dead body, every lost opportunity for millions of children, that's all on you.

I'm done. Monsters.

[avukich]

You are clearly filled to the brim with hate and vitriol.

Am I proud that my government has done everything it has done in all of our history? No. Am I proud of the vast majority of our actions around the world? You're damn right I am. We have done a hell of a lot more good around the world in our relatively short history than bad.

Regarding Japan in WW2, your little article fails to mention the reason that the US was conducting economic warfare against Japan. Those sanctions were in response to the atrocities and naked aggressions being committed by the Japanese in China since the begin of the second Sino-Japanese War in 1937. They aren't much different than the sanctions that the world is imposing on North Korea, Iran, etc. for their flaunting of international treaties. I am sure the Chinese who were being slaughtered wholesale by the Japanese are pretty happy we put a stop to their little empire building experiment.

As for Europe in WW2, yes the USSR (not Russia) did take Berlin, but they alone didn't beat Germany. Could they have done it if the US had never gotten involved? Maybe. If so it certainly would have been a hell of a lot more costly in human lives among other things for them. I suspect if the US had just stayed out of Europe completely and let the Germans and USSR beat the hell out of each other we would have never had the cold war because there would have only been one world power at that point, the USA. I have a sneaking suspicion that the VAST majority of Western Europeans are very happy that the US did get involved. You don't hear very many stories of people trying to escape West Germany for the utopia of East Germany and the Soviet Bloc for a reason.

As for Korea, I'd love to know what leads you to believe that the Kim Dynasty would be gone had the US not stopped the North. Maybe you've been to the North Korean unicorn lair (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/nov/30/unicorn-lair-di...) for your source?

As for the Middle East, you are forgetting the fact that there has been almost non-stop conflict there since biblical times and the US didn't exist then. It wasn't the US that started the Israel/Palestine conflict either (http://users.ox.ac.uk/~ssfc0005/The%20Middle%20East%20The%20...). Palestine was a British territory and the British decided that the Jews displaced by all the hate they received in Europe (by way more entities than just the Nazis) before and during WW2 should have a nation in Palestine. It never fails to amaze me how everyone always talks about the "atrocities" committed by Israel against the Palestinians. I find it appalling that what they have done to protect themselves from their Arab neighbors who have attacked them multiple times and from Palestinian terrorists are "atrocities" while the things done against them are not called the same thing. Strapping a bomb to yourself, walking into a cafe and blowing up a bunch of innocent women and children is not and never will be equivalent to using a missile to kill a known terrorist and killing a few innocent civilians accidentally in the process. The intent of the first case is to target innocents whereas the intent of the second is to target a killer.

You are correct. We are all monsters here in the US. Horrible, heartless monsters and all the world's woes are our fault. We clearly are "arrogant dicks to the planet:" http://www.globalhumanitarianassistance.org/countryprofile/u... http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-23341189 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_disc... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_and_technology_in_the_... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_United_States_inve...

I don't even know why I bothered to respond to this ridiculous, hate filled post of yours because one can't have a calm, rational, productive discussion with someone as blinded by hate and anger as you are. I have never nor will I ever claim that America is a perfect place free from flaw, but I am damn proud to be an American and I am proud of all the good that we have brought to the world. If you are too blinded by your hate to see the good that comes out of America, well, I'm sorry for you.

[mcguire]

The military response was such a roaring success, too...