[symfony_]

Let me reiterate:

- You take on contracts on the side and do not get enough sleep because of that.

- You think the company you work for should maybe compensate you with some time to sleep during their working time.

What happened when you asked the people you do some contracting for if you could sleep an hour and bill them your hourly for that?

I would think it reasonable for your full-time gig to respond in the exact same way as your freelance gig would.

[chriscampbell]

You hit the nail on the head. I can not imagine reacting any other way if an engineer on my team asked for nap time.

[koder2016]

The funny part is that your expectation is probably "I get the legitimate 1 hour of work instead of them taking a nap" but the reality is "I get 4-5 hours of poor quality work after lunch due to lack of nap".

[jerf]

Make sure to keep the context here. HN on occasion discusses napping at work and nap policies, and the discussion is usually pretty sensible.

This, however, is basically "Should my employer give me a benefit because I'm tired from working for other people?", which is, well, let me settle for "definitely not the same question".

In this case you can make a strong case that the employer in question isn't so much on the hook for providing nap time, but justified in firing you for not being able to keep up your end of the bargain because of your choices.

[joshmanders]

So wouldn't the answer to this be not to give them paid naps, but to eliminate the reason they need the nap in the first place? Most people take on side work because they don't make enough at their day job. So maybe re-evaluate their compensation and maybe raise it a bit?

[balabaster]

This is a never ending cycle of people chasing more and more money. If you're paying them fair market value for the area, then there's little point in giving them a pay rise for asking for a nap because they're tired. Chances are, they're chasing contract gigs because they have their own interests in the work or they just see the dollar signs - I know I do it... but I also know that come 10pm I'm wasted and have to hit the hay to start it all at 6am again the next day.

[hobs]

Not that I particularly endorse the idea, but what if it was shown to unambiguously produce a better product?

At that point, are you not arguing what you perceive to be a moral issue, not one of producing value for your clients?

http://www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/features/america-its-ti...

[pc86]

Why not just work split shifts then? 8-12 and 4-8, if you want to nap in the middle that's your prerogative.

The issue is paying the employee to sleep.

[balabaster]

But then they'll just jam another contract in that 4 hours... they won't sleep.

The issue isn't paying the employee to sleep, that's just a symptom of the real issue:

The issue is poor time and resource management or poor setting of client expectations on the part of the employee. They're not setting expectations well enough to manage their time and get the sleep they need to do the job they agreed to do when they were hired.

So realistically, if they're not doing the job we contractually agreed to, this should be disciplinary. If you're not living the life you need to meet the contractual obligation you agreed to, we need to review, renegotiate or cancel the contract. I don't care what you do outside of what I'm paying you to do, but if it's impacting your ability to do what I hired you for, then we need to talk - because I need someone that does what I need them to for us to get paid, if we're not getting paid, how long do you think I'm going to be able to afford to pay you?

I have budgets, product quality, deadlines and client expectations to manage as well. We're a team, if anyone on that team aren't able to function for the good of the team, then that needs to be fixed accordingly.

[pc86]

I agree in the OP's case this is a disciplinary issue. I would argue it's cause for termination but I imagine that's a minority opinion here.

I was referring to hobs's suggestion that a mid-day nap increase employee productivity and work quality. That may very well be the case but I still wouldn't pay employees to nap in the middle of the day.

[hobs]

To be clear, I dont think it is a minority opinion, I have fired half a dozen people for sleeping on the job, it was against policy and it was unprofessional in the workplace I was a part of.

My point is that things we think may be taboo could in fact be beneficial if we are willing to reconsider the assumptions that it is based upon.

Anyway, thank you for letting me play devil's advocate :)

[hobs]

Because I am not asking about when someone should sleep or not.

I am asking if paying someone to do something would produce an unambiguously better product, why argue with the practice unless its harmful/illegal/etc?

If I create software and I find that if I pay my employees to sleep and they create a better product than if they worked for 8 hours without me paying them to sleep?

You can blame the employees, but if you decide to ignore this practice and your competitor takes it up, they will beat you in the market while you complain about paying people to sleep.

[pc86]

The only reasonable reaction to being asked to pay for someone to take a nap in the middle of the day is to fire them.