[KerryJones]

This is the problem. He shouldn't have to clarify his relationship, he shouldn't have to explain everything. In essence, that destroys jokes.

It's not our job to know, but as we should assume innocence until proven guilty we should assume friendliness before assuming ridicule.

If Beaven had a problem -- let her handle it. She's a big girl, we're not her collective parents.

[rblstr]

Without clarifying it it looks like he stood on stage in front of a bunch of rich celebrities and slagged off the winner of an award for not wearing conventional dress to an award show.

I'm all for offensive comedy, but this wasn't a joke, he was basically slagging her off in public, live on television to a room full of people. Without context of their relationship it really looks like bullying. That's completely different to an offensive stand up comedy joke, especially when its so personally targeted. Some context to clarify that it wasn't mean and they're friends would have taken the edge off the 'joke' and nobody would have cared, but it was so off the cuff and mean it just looks like he is bullying her, which is probably what touched a chord with so many people. I'm sure Mr Fry is the last person who would want to be seen as bullying anyone.

[xiaoma]

The thing is, it wasn't their business to care. They had no part in it or knowledge of the people involved but they leapt into avenger mode anyway. And a lot of their responses were way outside of civil interactions.

This is one of the very least appealing changes in Anglophone culture over the past 10 years. The world would be far better off if Twitter made personal attacks, doxxing, etc (except possibly against politicians) a TOS violation that lead to account closure.

The problem is, Twitter would be much worse off. They literally profit from hatred and anger.

[rblstr]

I'd like to be clear that I'm not advocating anyone on twitter or anything that was said, I have not read any of the twitter response to this.

I just wanted to say that I could understand why people saw it the way they did, because to me it came across as really mean. It really stood out and made Mr Fry seem rather mean even compared to some of his other jokes. I'm not personally offended and I'm not going to twitter about it but I can see why people felt it was harsh because it felt harsh to me.

[monksy]

Take a look at what was actually said:

"Only one of the great cinematic costume designers would come to the awards dressed like a bag lady."

If people weren't so quick to jump on the "blame the white guy" wagon... you'd see that it was actually a pretty clever statement.

[rblstr]

I mean, I watched the show, I heard what he said, it's whole tone was off compared to the rest of the night. It really stood out and sounded awfully harsh.

Now I'm not going to go to twitter about it, it didn't offend me but it did come across rather mean and crass.

[chippy]

>it didn't offend me

Fry's post says that one of the problems is due to people being offended on behalf of other people they have never met.

So they are not offended personally (e.g like most people), but they imagine that it would be offensive to someone else (e.g. a minority) and decide to co-opt this imagined offence.

It's a curious difference in being offended personally, and defending others via imagining the offence of that other. One can see another point of view, but its harder to imagine another changing their point of view.

[rblstr]

Well I'm actually curious now what the twitter response was, because as I've expressed here, I think his 'joke' missed the mark and came off harsh, which I found hurtful by proxy I suppose. I wouldn't like to be called that live on television. So I'm assuming most of the response was 'that wasn't very nice I think you should apologise for that remark' and Mr Fry's response is to get annoyed that anyone would get offended by his comment and eventually close his twitter account. I'm sure there were much more extreme remarks but this is twitter, you're going to get chaff with the wheat.

I personally think he was out of line and even with the context of they were friends I think it was a mis-judged joke. I'm not going to go on social media to tell him about it but my opinion of him has certainly changed based on this behaviour.

[muglug]

Something can be both clever and offensive – the two are not mutually exclusive...

[monksy]

Could you explain to me how that statement is "offensive"?

[hudibras]

Do you really not understand how telling a woman that she looks like a bag lady is offensive, even setting aside the fact that a.) this was on a television program and b.) the woman was not in a position to say anything in response?

[monksy]

"Only one of the great cinematic costume designers would come to the awards dressed like a bag lady.

So lets break that down.

The subject is a "cinematic costume designer" According to Sir Fry, she is a great one at that.

Then we have the other part of the statement: "She came to the awards dressed as a bag lady." This part of the statement is a bit odd/stands out when compared to a group of rather posh individuals.

When you put both parts of this together you have a really positive reference by Mr. Fry then combined with an odd/"less flattering" situation. It's ironic.

This structure matches a classic setup/punchline structure of a joke: http://www.creatingacomic.com/2009/how-to-write-a-joke-joke-...

What make this even funnier and more congratulating is: She's a costume designer. Maybe this was intended. At the end of the day Stephen Fry was pictured with the individual and there have been claims that there is no bad blood between the two.

[mwfunk]

I'm more confused by "clever".

[TheRealDunkirk]

Combine this with stories that rise to prominence based on a limited set of facts, distorted truths, or outright lies, and it's particularly pernicious. That people are instantly willing to offer the absolute worst wishes (and actions) they can muster, on a few words posted over a picture, and personally involve themselves in something they know NOTHING about is disheartening.

[jsmthrowaway]

Not everyone deserves a microphone. Yet as an industry, we have built billions of them. (Comment sections, including this one, are the place to start when thinking about that.)

[st3v3r]

If explaining that relationship destroys the joke, then the joke probably wasn't funny or in decent taste to begin with.

[rodgerd]

> This is the problem.

The problem is that Stephen Fry loves to dish it out, then has a petulant hissy fit because he can't take it. He loves to claim there's "no right not to be offended" - except when it comes to his precious sensibilities, apparently.