[monksy]

Take a look at what was actually said:

"Only one of the great cinematic costume designers would come to the awards dressed like a bag lady."

If people weren't so quick to jump on the "blame the white guy" wagon... you'd see that it was actually a pretty clever statement.

[rblstr]

I mean, I watched the show, I heard what he said, it's whole tone was off compared to the rest of the night. It really stood out and sounded awfully harsh.

Now I'm not going to go to twitter about it, it didn't offend me but it did come across rather mean and crass.

[chippy]

>it didn't offend me

Fry's post says that one of the problems is due to people being offended on behalf of other people they have never met.

So they are not offended personally (e.g like most people), but they imagine that it would be offensive to someone else (e.g. a minority) and decide to co-opt this imagined offence.

It's a curious difference in being offended personally, and defending others via imagining the offence of that other. One can see another point of view, but its harder to imagine another changing their point of view.

[rblstr]

Well I'm actually curious now what the twitter response was, because as I've expressed here, I think his 'joke' missed the mark and came off harsh, which I found hurtful by proxy I suppose. I wouldn't like to be called that live on television. So I'm assuming most of the response was 'that wasn't very nice I think you should apologise for that remark' and Mr Fry's response is to get annoyed that anyone would get offended by his comment and eventually close his twitter account. I'm sure there were much more extreme remarks but this is twitter, you're going to get chaff with the wheat.

I personally think he was out of line and even with the context of they were friends I think it was a mis-judged joke. I'm not going to go on social media to tell him about it but my opinion of him has certainly changed based on this behaviour.

[muglug]

Something can be both clever and offensive – the two are not mutually exclusive...

[monksy]

Could you explain to me how that statement is "offensive"?

[hudibras]

Do you really not understand how telling a woman that she looks like a bag lady is offensive, even setting aside the fact that a.) this was on a television program and b.) the woman was not in a position to say anything in response?

[monksy]

"Only one of the great cinematic costume designers would come to the awards dressed like a bag lady.

So lets break that down.

The subject is a "cinematic costume designer" According to Sir Fry, she is a great one at that.

Then we have the other part of the statement: "She came to the awards dressed as a bag lady." This part of the statement is a bit odd/stands out when compared to a group of rather posh individuals.

When you put both parts of this together you have a really positive reference by Mr. Fry then combined with an odd/"less flattering" situation. It's ironic.

This structure matches a classic setup/punchline structure of a joke: http://www.creatingacomic.com/2009/how-to-write-a-joke-joke-...

What make this even funnier and more congratulating is: She's a costume designer. Maybe this was intended. At the end of the day Stephen Fry was pictured with the individual and there have been claims that there is no bad blood between the two.

[hudibras]

Thank you for breaking it down like that, but nobody's saying it wasn't a joke. The point is that it was an offensive joke.

[monksy]

To call it an offensive joke seems like you're perverting what was actually said and would require striping out the context.

Mr. Fry did not say: "Shes a bag lady, too poor to receive this award. Just take a look at her clothes"

That could be considered a joke at the expectation of being posh, at a highly honor awards ceremony, and would be considered offensive to the subject and maybe the audience.

[mwfunk]

I'm more confused by "clever".