[greys0ul]

I think this is an excellent way to help some kids cope with adhd, but I definitely don't think it'd work universally. Reading this made me think back on my own struggle with adhd.

A few years ago I was diagnosed with adhd at the age of 23, and god damn do I wish it happened a decade sooner, but my parents were the type that didn't believe in that kind of stuff, so I was just lazy. It's stuck with me to this day even, it took me a while to come to terms with it and I at times I still think I'm lying to myself and I'm just lazy, and would never make this post on my main account.

I first started seriously considering that it might be something other than just laziness in college when I was studying for finals with some friends and we decided to enhance that studying with some adderall. Everyone got super focused, churning out work and wide awake for hours, except me. I felt pretty much nothing different at first, and was kinda pissed it didn't work, but got to studying anyways. The next day I was complaining to my friend about my apparent immunity to amphetamines, and thinking back I realized it might've had an effect after all. Instead of jumping around and doing 50 things at once in no logical order I actually stayed more or less on one thing at a time. I didn't get the apparent super human focus and metal boost, and it didn't keep me awake for shit, but I got to pick what I focused on. My friend mentioned that having that kind of reaction to stimulants might be a possible symptom of add, but I didn't take that seriously, since everything is apparently a symptom of add.

Later on I finally got a job with my own health insurance, and went to a therapist for an unrelated reason. Through multiple sessions I unloaded the story of my life, how I could never pay attention to just one thing when I was younger, but I saw it as an advantage because I could context switch between 10 things got damn good at it. How I loved driving so much because thinking about every other car on the road with me and predicting their actions all at once put my mind at ease. But as I got older, the 10 things I tried to focus on each needed a lot more focus than my rapid context switching could provide. It had gotten to the point that holding a conversation was a troubling task because I'd also be thinking about 10 other things and losing bits and pieces of it.

The first time my therapist told me that I may have adhd, I was actually insulted. I didn't want to consider the possibility that something was actually wrong with me, I was just lazy and needed to get my shit together. I never outwardly acted out as a kid, I wasn't hyperactive, there was no way I could have adhd. I later realized that a lot of my outlet went into computers instead, where for me the adhd was actually helpful.

I continued my sessions, and eventually she convinced me to see a psychiatrist. Over a few visits he also diagnosed me with adhd. I refused to take the prescription and ended up going to two other doctors that gave me the same diagnoses. I finally relented and worked with my therapist and the psychiatrist to set a plan of action. I was prescribed adderall, which I took daily for 3 months. At the same time I also started working on behaviors and methods to cope with it without medication. It was a night and day difference. I remember 2 weeks in sitting in my room almost in tears thinking "is this how normal people think all the time? They can choose? Why the fuck couldn't I have that".

After the first 3 months I started skipping my meds for one week out of every month to gauge how well I could deal without. It took about 7 months until I was confident enough to go off of it, but it feels like I never did. As much as I hate pharmaceuticals, there's no way I could've gotten to where I am today without. I genuinely feel that I've managed to change something in my brain to a less chaotic process. I didn't even know there was another way to think, I thought that was normal. Sure, it's still a struggle, and I still have my moments, but I can actually manage my life. I can decide to clean my apartment and not end up starting 5 other projects after 20 minutes of cleaning. The amount of shit I could have accomplished had I been able to handle my mind a decade earlier.

Sorry for the long winded rant, but damn it feels good to actually put that into words. I'm still ashamed in a way of it, it makes me feel "broken" I guess, so no one but my doctors and I know and writing that was a bit of a relief. I'm honestly not sure what my point of writing this was, other that to say that while giving kids heavy amphetamines is probably not a great idea, doing something to help from a young age could be massively life changing, and if nothing else is helping, waiting too long for medication probably isn't a great idea either.

[falcolas]

> but my parents were the type that didn't believe in that kind of stuff, so I was just lazy.

You're not the only one: I failed many high school courses because I couldn't focus on getting the homework done. Official Parental diagnosis: Lazy $*#@. And my mother was even trained to identify mental problems like this, but developed a blindness to my symptoms.

[greys0ul]

I barely skated through highschool pretty much on test scores alone. If I couldn't do the homework in class the day it was due, it basically didn't get done. My sat scores managed to get me into college, which I dropped out of due to the homework. Went to two more community colleges after that for a year each, then another college I got a scholarship at but only made it 2 years there before I got a good job (thank god for my interest in computers from age 6) and decided it wasn't worth it. I'm considering going back now that I've gotten my head straight though.

[sathackr]

Interesting nearly simul-post. Same here, I scored 1250 on the SAT, 31 on the ACT, and in the top 99th percentile on the CPT.

Literature/Comprehension has always been my weakness "Read the passage below, then select what you think best describes the point the author is trying to make" -- they all look like right answers.

Took 18 credit-hours per semester of courses on scholarship, right out of high school, failed all of them miserably, dropped out, goofed off for 5 years doing whatever would make money. Got a good job that pushed me back to school, once again got a scholarship, went for another year or two, was forced to quit due to personal circumstances. I have two years left on my BS in Computer Engineering, I may finish one day, but it's not very important to my current line of work.

[greys0ul]

I almost didn't post my original comment as it seemed off topic, but responses like this make me glad I did. It's good to realize I'm not alone in it.

2170/1400 on the sat, 35 on the act, not sure what the cpt is, and anything anything writing/literature related killed me. I passed my senior english class with a 59.5, literally as low as possible without failing. I have a total of ~2 years of credits on my ECE BS, but work as a sysadmin/devops and love it, if I finish my degree it'll just be something to hang on the wall.

[sathackr]

I had the exact same grade in English IV - barely scraping by with a D. If I had failed that I would have been another year in school.

CPT "College Placement Test" was required by the local community college even though I had taken the SAT and ACT.

It was not a timed test at the time, it was multiple choice, and I was allowed to use a simple calculator. Might not have known all the right answers, but I knew how to figure out which one was the wrong one. I think I spent 6 hours on it. I by far scored the best on it out of all of them.

I used to be in network security for a financial institution, but I wear a few hats now. I'm a certified tower climber and senior network engineer(That makes the article even more relevant, half of the time I'm designing networks, the other half of the time I'm getting sunburnt, hanging off a 500ft tall piece of steel with a fiber cable dangling under me and a laptop on my back.) I have a good Cisco background, MCITP(the new, now old MCSE) and can take apart and fix nearly anything.

Thanks for your story. It would probably give away your main handle to disclose, but I'm curious why you wouldn't want to post it under that one.

edit: fixed typo

[falcolas]

Sadly, I had a few teachers who had a "must complete all homework to take the test" rule which pretty much screwed me over.

It was entertaining, however, to fail the Calculus high school class, and get a perfect score on the AP exam. Of course, that did nothing but reenforce the "Lazy *&#@" label to my parent's eyes.

[sathackr]

Tests are the only way I passed highschool. If I got a teacher that required homework as a significant portion of the grade, I would fail that class. Leave me alone, let me sleep through class, then give me the test and let me go. Thankfully homework was usually only 20-30% of the grade, so the little I did along with my test scores passed me in most classes with a C. I managed to fail 7 classes in 4 years and still graduated with a 3.08, thanks to summer school and the extra points from honors/AP classes.

[wilwade]

> waiting too long for medication probably isn't a great idea either

I think this is critical. I have a 7 year old daughter who was diagnosed about a year ago. For context pre-meds she was getting frustrated at her inability to put together her own LEGO creations. She would work on 5+ at a time. She was frustrated and was just being able to express her own frustration. Post-meds (dexmethylphenidate) she can actually build with LEGO (her greatest love I think).

The key idea however for us is that the meds give her time to learn. Not school learning stuff, but to learn about actions and consequences. About how her executive functioning can be improved and how her brain works.

[greys0ul]

Man that hits close to home. I remember always begging my parents for more lego sets, never finishing them and my parents giving me shit for that.

I usually refrain from commenting on anything relating to parenting at risk of being (rightfully) shouted down as I have no experience with it. But in this case, as someone that was in your daughters place once, 20 years later I think the best thing you can do for your daughter now is to reinforce sticking with something and finishing it. Basically developing the mindset she has on meds into a habit that she'll eventually be able to keep without them.

I think, as you mentioned, that learning about actions and consequences, especially in the long term instead of immediate ones, will help her a lot down the road. Your daughter is lucky to have you as a parent who is willing to guide her and help navigate through the bullshit that adhd can bring.

[watmough]

Sounds kinda familiar. No medication for me, but I'm a software engineer, focused driver, commercial multi-engine pilot. Not sure ADHD is a disability, just some traits that evolved that helped ensure survival.

[spacedmountain]

I relate to many of your experiances. It is unfortunate there is such as stigma around the condition and medication that inhibits people from getting help.

[sathackr]

I'm probably in the same boat. I see myself as a firefighter, things don't get my attention until their burning down, then I perform miracles to save them. Every few months my utility bills don't get paid until they turn it off.

Personal relationships degrade until the point they are about to fall apart, then a blast of attention brings them back to normal. I'm a disorganized mess but when the right moment hits, I can do in a day what would take someone else a month to do.

Unfortunately I have nearly zero trust in the psychiatric community, and little trust in the medical community. There's too much overmedication/overdiagnosis in a attempt to CYA, limit liability, and in some cases, profit. I'm always suspicious of anyone who could be motivated to prescribe medication or treatment by a factor other than solely my well being(I reworded that sentence several times trying to decrease ambiguity...hopefully it makes sense). Full courses of antibiotics are prescribed for a runny nose, hearing tests ordered for mild congestion. I've seen kids diagnosed with ADHD and medicated into submission when all they needed was good parenting and a structured environment. A family member adopted 3 children from 3 different families. Wouldn't you know all 3 of them 'had' ADHD. If they started making noise or acting like kids, she would say 'oh, it must be time for their medication'. I've mentioned this to a couple of MD acquaintances. One of their responses were "She's convinced something is wrong. If I don't prescribe something, she will just go down the list of doctors until she finds one that will. Then I'll be the bad doctor for not doing something. The buck might as well stop here."

In any case of my condition being real, I have a fear of dependency. I'm scared that if I finally do submit and take medication, I will become dependent on it. I know my propensity to addiction and have vigorously avoided all drugs, including alcohol, except OTC painkillers and occasionally some cold symptom medication my entire life. I'm not concerned with becoming addicted to adderall/ritalin/etc... -- I'm concerned that it will eliminate what little control I've managed to exert over the issue and I don't want to take it for the rest of my life.

Your story about being able to wean yourself from it with little negatives while still maintaining the benefits may have given me the confidence to take the next step and try to get help.

[lfowles]

The common thing I see on /r/adhd is that medication can be useful as a crutch while you develop good habits. Going off of medication does bring you back to the old norm, but you've got some good coping methods built up by that point.

[lfowles]

I've been browsing your comments in this thread some more and just have to reply to this point:

> In any case of my condition being real, I have a fear of dependency. I'm scared that if I finally do submit and take medication, I will become dependent on it.

One of the hallmarks of unmedicated ADHD is poor impulse control and addiction. Getting proper medication makes a world of difference, be wary of inadvertently making your life worse due to internal bias.

[sathackr]

thank you for the sound advice. I'm checkout out bulletjournal and will likely at least try the medication route, assuming a doctor agrees and officially diagnoses me.

I was on Ritalin for a short time when I was around 14, I was as anti-medication then as I am now, didn't notice a difference and started refusing to take it after a month or so. I remember depression being mentioned at the time, although I don't know what the official diagnosis was.

The one medication that did seem to have great effect scared me so bad that I stopped taking it and refused to take any more -- percocet. I was prescribed some after oral surgery and threw it out after taking it for a couple of days. During that time, the house was cleaned spotless, laundry done and folded, even ironed my shirts and hung them (as opposed to my typical pattern of snatching them from the dryer and ironing them immediately before I wear them), and many other things were done that I would have normally procrastinated and waited until the very last minute. From talking to others, this doesn't appear to be a normal reaction to opioids.

[fdanconia]

What are your coping methods?

[greys0ul]

My main one is a notebook that never leaves my side. If I have a thought, impulse or idea that isn't what I'm currently doing, I quickly write it down, usually with a flowchart kinda sketch and then go back to what I was doing. I give myself a maximum of about 15 seconds for this. Once I finish what I was originally doing I look in the notebook and pick the next thing to do.

The other big one is 3 goals a day. Every morning when I wake up, I give myself 3 goals that I must accomplish before going to bed. Generally they're trivial things, take out the trash, wipe down the kitchen counter, that kind of thing. I find that no matter how simple, it gives me the feeling of accomplishing something I set out to do and helps me reinforce non-impulsive thinking/decision making and remind myself that I can in fact finish a task that I thought of more than 30 seconds ago.

I can expand on how I cope tonight when I have more time if you'd like.

[sathackr]

I've shunned mechanisms like this for fear I would become dependent on them, and then really in trouble if I were to lose the notebook, which, unless it was permanently attached to my body, would be quite likely.

Having 'the cloud' has started to help me. It's something I know I can't lose, so I'm slowly allowing myself to become dependent on it (things like calendar, short notes, and keeping track of receipts). And by the cloud, I mean google drive, emails to self, etc..

[qb45]

Hmm, doesn't writing something down increase your ability to remember about it later?

In my case writing seems to work as "hey brain, this stuff is important, don't forget". If I write something, it turns out I didn't need to. If I don't, it turns out I'd have better done.

[sathackr]

Yes, that is something. The act of writing it down helps my ability to remember it.

[lfowles]

Think about it this way: Would you shun glasses because it's possible to lose/break them?

[sathackr]

Probably not for the same reason, because they are easy to replace. A notebook full of thoughts is not.

Interestingly though, I have shunned glasses for fear of becoming dependent on them. I can see well enough without them, and noticed, after wearing them for a while, my uncorrected vision was worse than before I started wearing them. Whatever mechanisms my eyes had developed to see better became less effective after wearing glasses for a while. I lost the last pair about 4 years ago and haven't replaced it.

[lfowles]

I've used a notebook at well and I think you'd be able to work with the same strategy. The notebook is just ephemeral thoughts that you have the impulse to take action on, so you write them down instead of acting on them. At some point you move the worthwhile content to a better resting place. It shouldn't end up being an irreplaceable object :)

Edit: Specifically, I followed the Bullet Journal system: http://bulletjournal.com/

[reitanqild]

Not GP but still interested.

[reitanqild]

One very nifty hack is the pomodoro technique.

Correctly applied [0] it seems to trigger competition-mode[1] and a sense of urgency. This helps the brain cross the "interesting" threshold and stay focused instead of coming up with other ideas or dozing off.

0:-)

1: "I really should be able to get this done in the next 25 minutes."

[krampus]

Which no-medication methods do you use ?

[greys0ul]

I wrote a little above on them: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10988605

I can expand later today when I have a bit more time.