In the bay area the average for juniors is only 90k, and most people cap out at 120k or so, unless they have top-tier degrees, incredible negotiating skills, or something.
From my experience, I'd say the cap is around $150k in the bay area or so for standard senior positions regardless of degree. The degree is absolutely irrelevant and in many cases if you have an advanced degree, (Masters, PHD) it can work against you (if you don't actually know how to build things).
For reference, with the cost of living being where it is, I'd say anything < $200k in the bay area is not enough to live on and save comfortably, but that's just my opinion. As far as I know, there aren't any startups offering $200k or above (or even close) for engineering jobs in the bay area.
The guy in the article linked an article, whose author (Dan Luu) seems to think that $250k (total compensation) is pretty much a given for anyone with 5 years of experience working for a big company (i.e. Google or Facebook or Microsoft), and claims that anyone who thinks you can't make that much talk to the tens of thousands of engineers that do. Is it really that common?
When I was interviewing in San Francisco and Seattle at big companies (Zynga and Disney) a couple of years ago, they were wanting to pay me around $130k for a senior position, which didn't seem worth the move.
I also interviewed at Google and while I didn't get as far as salary negotiations, I was lead to believe by the recruiter, I think, that it would start around $110k-ish, although it also wasn't for a senior role.
I don't see how Dan Luu is thinking $200k+ salary is on the low end out there. If I could expect to get that I might actually consider moving to the west coast.
$250k is certainly not a given. I think that includes equity compensation like the other post mentions. My experience is that Google and Microsoft pay around $170-200k to start base compensation for a Sr. Engineer so it's generally a little higher than the $150-160k you'd expect at a regular bay area company or the $130k or so you can reasonably expect in Seattle. The higher end of that I'd expect in the bay area and the lower end in Seattle.
"Only" counts for something when you have to pay half of it to live in a reasonable location. That 90k in SF is around 50k in Hampton-Roads VA. That 90k in Oakland is around 60k.
Do people not commute from Oakland? Is the BART ride too long? Or are rents in Oakland just as high? I've only visited the Bay Area a few times, so please feel free to correct me on this one.
I managed to make do with 50K a year, but I lived in San Jose and didn't have the expenses of car ownership.
Living in SJ required a 20 minute walk to CalTrain and then a 45 minute ride to the city by CalTrain (if I caught the express) and then another 15 minute walk to work.
BART from Oakland only goes along Market, which is only walking distance from about half of SOMA (where most of the tech people work). That whole area can be pretty rough, especially after dark. Personally I'd rather walk to 4th & King and commute via Caltrain, but the peninsula is more expensive and Caltrain only has one stop in downtown SF vs 4 for BART (Embarcadero, Montgomery, Powell, Civic Center).
2. To some, yes, because BART is getting crowded so many end up standing in a wall to wall claustrophobic space.
3. They are climbing higher, especially since Uber is moving to there, and they're only the vanguard. It's also been discussed as a cheaper alternative to SF for at least two or three years now.
Are there no places available in the lower end range with 1 hour commutes? I know there is a shortage of low priced apartments, but they have to exist.
The median 2 bedroom apartment in SF is currently about $4600/month. This means that even with a roommate to split the bills with, at a salary of $90k you're looking at spending nearly 50% of your take home just on rent. Add in utilities, food, transportation, etc and $90k pretty rapidly stops looking so great.
You could easily live in a 3-bedroom and pay $1700 a month in rent. You'll only have $3000 a month to pay for food and transportation - oh my god, the privation, how is anyone supposed to make it?
"in SF" in a pretty important qualifier. On top of a 28% federal tax rate you're paying 12% state income tax. San Francisco has a 1.5% income tax as well. So on $90k/yr you're down to about $4500 a month take home but that's excluding any payroll taxes outside of income. Several hundred dollars there. You're already in "spend half my check on rent" territory.
Even though 90k is ~3x the average personal income for the US, when you're living in one of the most expensive cities in the country, you can absolutely be broke on that.
SF does not have an income tax. It does have a 1.5% payroll tax that is paid by employers, but that is already factored into your your gross pay (IOW, if a company offers you 90k the pay the $1,350 in taxes and you never deal with it).
You can argue it effectively pushes down the size of the offers people get, but you don't have to worry about it when you calculate your net take home.
You are right, (marginal) state tax on $90k is "only" 9.3% and that's on about 40% of the income.
My point was that on $90k in SF proper, if you want a "nice" place, even a 1BR or studio you're going to be spending a huge percentage of your income on rent and basic necessities.
For reference, with the cost of living being where it is, I'd say anything < $200k in the bay area is not enough to live on and save comfortably, but that's just my opinion. As far as I know, there aren't any startups offering $200k or above (or even close) for engineering jobs in the bay area.