[rtl49]

I've been (trying to) meditate for about four years now. I even attended a ten day silent meditation retreat in September, which I wrote about in another post. I still find it extremely difficult. People vary in their aptitude for meditation, and for those like me these "aids" are appealing. For myself, I don't see the value of the apps; I'd just as soon use any of hundreds of decent guided meditations on Youtube.

[mbrock]

The eagerness with which people recommend those very intense ten day retreats to anyone saying they'd like to start meditating indicates a problem, in my view.

Plenty of people find them valuable, but they're also a pretty extreme way to start out. To me it seems likely to turn people off; after all they're designed to be a kind of boot camp experience.

And then on the internet people are often bringing up how they sit in lotus posture for an hour every day...

People can discuss whatever they want and make whatever suggestions they want, of course, but I think it's all likely to construe meditation as necessarily tedious, painful, and time-consuming.

I'm curious, have you tried maintaining a habit of sitting for something like 10 or 5 minutes per day? In some non-contorted posture, like kneeling on a meditation bench?

Not to imply that "everyone should be able to do that" or whatever, but if all your attempts for years have been ambitious, that could be demotivating... whereas kneeling and breathing for 5 minutes is a great way to get started.

[rtl49]

I agree that some people recommend the retreats with too little restraint. I'm a fairly young and healthy person, and I still found sitting still while cross-legged for long periods of time very painful. Even on the last day I found it impossible to sit longer than an hour without moving. And this practice is encouraged -- they were called "sittings of strong determination." This is not to mention the difficulty of meditation itself and the ten-day abstention from communication and all intellectual activity.

That said, I can't plead ignorance, just overconfidence. Since the retreat, I have lasted no longer than fifteen minutes at a time. I prefer lying down (I'm not tempted to sleep). It actually feels like I'm a worse meditator now than I was before the retreat, though I've been assured that this is a "sign of progress."

Truthfully, after maybe 140 hours of practice, I have doubts about the purported benefits. The ultimate aim, the end of suffering, seems like an impossible and likely undesirable goal. For now, I use it as needed to clear my mind when I need to focus.

[mbrock]

Yeah, meditation is a magnet for grand claims. I ignore that stuff too, except to the extent that I find Buddhist philosophy interesting.

The vipassana retreats are built on Buddhism (though the founder prefers to reformulate it in more secular terms) so it's not surprising that they're aimed towards some notion of nirvana.

At the very least, simple breathing exercises can be super obviously relaxing and mind-clearing. Lots of people do them for just ten breaths. Five minutes is quite a lot from that perspective, so I really think we shouldn't dismiss that kind of duration.

[KingMob]

Minor note: Goenka uses the term "vipassana" in a way that makes people think they're synonymous, but many other teachers and schools teach vipassana.

[mbrock]

Agreed. I think it's a pretty definitely Buddhist term though, no? Referring to the fundamental insight into the nature of suffering?

[avtar]

There's no shame in using a chair for sitting :) I'm not sure if you attended a ten day Goenka retreat but other teaching styles in the same tradition can be more flexible.

Walking meditation can also help prepare the mind for sitting practice: http://www.insightmeditationcenter.org/books-articles/articl...

[rtl49]

>There's no shame in using a chair for sitting

Easier said than believed when there's a sixty-year-old woman within view managing just fine without one ^^.

I actually appreciated the discipline of the retreat, I was just physically unprepared for the sitting (too inflexible). I'm open to other techniques, and when I'm alone I don't force myself into an uncomfortable posture. Thanks for the link.

[cnp]

Totally agree.

I find its best to do 12 minutes in the morning, right when I wake up. No food yet or anything; just leave the bedroom, head to the corner of the room, hit my timer and go. 12 minutes is my happy medium, but it took some time to get there; I started at 3 (can't argue with 3 minutes) then doubled it to 6, then doubled it to 12. On the weekends I do 24, and often times more. But the key was building up from that initial 3 minute daily commitment.

I know everyone hears this all the time, but Meditation is the greatest thing. Hard to explain unless you do it every day, but it has such a wonderful transformative power. Its really helped improve my code, too.

[qbit]

I'm curious how long you did the three minutes per day before doubling to six, and likewise for the time before doubling to twelve.

[cnp]

About every three months I've doubled it. It got to the point where the 3 minutes of time started instantaneously passing and then the same thing happened with 6 and now its starting to happen with 12. A very weird / cool feeling that really builds over time

[hacker_9]

I struggled for a long time too in the beginning. Mainly I would get bored. I finally broke though that plateau though by realizing boredom was just another thought passing through my mind that I could observe, instead of be a part of. You just have to keep at it to arrive at these insights.