[bigiain]

How did we get from "unsolicited selfies with, or down-blouse shots of women at tech conferences" to "art"?

The problem we're talking about is creeps, not photographers, no matter what the creeps claimed motivation is - it's blindingly obvious to almost everybody that there is a difference (and posts like yours are really hard not to read as defending/justifying creep's behaviour).

[mc32]

In a word, "permission"

It comes from knowing street photographers and the flack they get. People ready to beat them up (occasionally they do get beaten). At times it's men "protecting" someone. At time it's men themselves who feel offended. Sometimes it's women themselves who feel offended. You also get people who feel flattered. But overall they are simply "subjects"

[KirinDave]

I am a "street photographer" and have filled income gaps with wedding photography and film portraiture. Mysteriously, this issue has never come up with a woman.

Maybe if we were talking about the right to photograph a building from across the street, but if you think it's legal, ethical, or reasonable to take pictures of people they do not want you to take that are invasive of their privacy... Well... You will not win that case in a court of law, a debate on ethics, or in this forum of your peers.

Because it's a nonsensical talking point trying to turn everyone else into a victim but the actual victim.

[mc32]

I disagree. americansuburbx[1] is a good place to start as any into the culture of street photography and it's many supporting genres [documentary, staged, portraiture,etc]. Also burn mag [2]

[1]http://www.americansuburbx.com/

[2]http://www.burnmagazine.org/

[KirinDave]

You're welcome to disagree, but keep in mind exactly the context and conversation you've decided to take up championing photographer's rights in.

This is what sexism is made of. Just fyi. Your principles protecting an abstract group of people outweighs even entertaining the condemnation of a very real and very outrageous violation of personal space and rights.

[mc32]

We're having a discussion here. I's not a singular track. We can discuss ancillary things.

Yes, totally people who act immature and grotesquely should be called out and that behavior not tolerated. Still, I do defend photographers who yes, get harassed by uninformed people. They really find it unbelievable that photographers have a right to take pictures in public without permission.

You, a self described street photographer, seem unaware of the long street photography tradition, so how do you expect a bystander to understand photographers' rights[1] backed by the ACLU?

[1]https://www.aclu.org/issues/free-speech/photographers-rights

[KirinDave]

And by "discuss ancillary things" you mean one non-committal post about how bad those people are, but how they have a right to do it. Mysteriously, the vast majority of your posts are on this vein of the topic.

P.S., I've no need to entertain your bullshit about how my photography isn't street enough for you. Find something useful to add to the conversation.