[robotnoises]

Larry Wall's discussion on the logo, Camelia (https://raw.githubusercontent.com/perl6/mu/master/misc/camel...):

Discussion Highlights =====================

From: Larry Wall Date: March 24, 2009 10:25 Subject: Re: Logo considerations

[...] I think there's a tendency to go way too abstract in most of these proposals. I want something with gut appeal on the order of Tux. In particular I want a logo for Perl 6 that is:

    Fun
    Cool
    Cute
    Named
    Lively
    Punable
    Personal
    Concrete
    Symmetric
    Asymmetric
    Attractive
    Relational
    Metamorphic
    Decolorizable
    Shrinkable to textual icon
    Shrinkable to graphical icon

In addition, you can extend just about anything by attaching "P6" wings to it. I also take it as a given that we want to discourage misogyny in our community. You of the masculine persuasion should consider it an opportunity to show off your sensitive side. :)

Hence, Camelia.

Larry

[smonff]

Happy to see someone who discourage misogyny in his wishes for a new logo :-)

[justinator]

I remember volunteering to create some logo ideas for Perl 6 - maybe a decade ago? I did research and presented ideas. I was at a step even before thumbnail sketches - just wanted to get some feedback from the Perl community - am I on the right track? Any other ideas to look at? [0]

Larry kinda went, "NO IT"S THIS." and there was Camelia.

Honestly, Camelia is just slightly worse than the redesign of The Life Aquatic Flag/Logo. Which itself was funny, as this was from a comedy [1].

[0] http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl6.users/2009/01/msg9...

[1] https://www.google.com/search?q=The+Life+Aquatic+with+Steve+...

[justinator]

Ah, I remember now - Larry just posted a PDF of Camelia.[0]

I was under the impression that Larry was banned from being in involved in the implementation of Perl 6. ;)

I kinda saw that logo and gave up the idea of helping. It was just so horrible as to defy logic.

Still love Perl and I think a butterfly is a great idea - and even this is a good as a start, but it's not a strong enough logo for people to have careers depend upon. Like me. It doesn't even tick all the checkboxes that Larry had. If you made this logo in an intro design class in art school, you'd be ridiculed.

[0] http://www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl6.users/2009/03/msg9...

[Zikes]

I don't get it. How does disliking a butterfly logo equate to hating women?

[autoreleasepool]

It doesn't. The logo is more childish than it is feminine anyways.

[smonff]

Discouraging misogyny doesn't mean feminine.

[Zikes]

But in this context (a rather garish butterfly logo), what does it mean?

[kbenson]

Not overtly masculine? I can imagine the temptation was there for some to promote an overly aggressive logo.

[Zikes]

The idea that masculinity is akin to misogyny is as dangerous and harmful as misogyny itself. As is the idea that aggression is a purely masculine trait, or that any of the traits Larry listed are exclusively feminine.

[virtualsue]

That's pretty much the intention. I have heard Larry Wall say that Camelia was created to appeal to 7 year old girls. I didn't hear him go into any complicated discussions regarding masculinity/femininity or any of that jazz.

[tcooks]

> You of the masculine persuasion should consider it an opportunity to show off your sensitive side. :)

I might perceive this differently because of my cultural background, but isn't it a bit misandric to claim masculinity as unsensitive?

Tom Cooks

[Karunamon]

I'm having a hard time thinking of a logo that is both

* Something a programming language with wide use would ever adopt, past, present, or future

* ..and is misogynistic in any way

What the hell is that sentence directed at?

[smonff]

Maybe he meant something that Peaches could make a suit of on stage: https://twitter.com/CreativeCopper1/status/65167580812206080...