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by dragonwriter 3938 days ago
> No scripting language can ever integrate with the host system quite as well as shell scripts can.

What is the basis for this? Shell script is a scripting language (more precisely, a set of scripting languages with similar features.) The difference between shell scripting languages and other scripting languages is that the former are optimized around the need to scale down to a convenient line-by-line way to work with the system in a REPL; while the others may support work in a REPL it is not what they are optimized for.

There's no real reason why other scripting languages can't integrate with the system as well as shell languages.
2 comments
AnimalMuppet 3938 days ago
>> No scripting language can ever integrate with the host system quite as well as shell scripts can.

> What is the basis for this? Shell script is a scripting language (more precisely, a set of scripting languages with similar features.) The difference between shell scripting languages and other scripting languages is that the former are optimized around the need to scale down to a convenient line-by-line way to work with the system in a REPL; while the others may support work in a REPL it is not what they are optimized for.

Disagree. The defining characteristic of shell scripting languages is that they are a shell that can be scripted. What's a shell? It's a program designed to be a layer around the OS, exposing all of the capabilities of the OS to the user in a convenient form.

So the only way a non-shell scripting language can become that powerful is to become a shell scripting language.

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brazzledazzle 3938 days ago
>What's a shell? It's a program designed to be a layer around the OS, exposing all of the capabilities of the OS to the user in a convenient form.

I think that's what they were getting at when they said:

>optimized around the need to scale down to a convenient line-by-line way to work with the system in a REPL

The only real difference is optimization for the REPL. Many of the things you might consider part of the experience aren't even shell built-ins, they're utilities maintained separately from your shell. Powershell is a good example of a shell scripting language that has a lot more going on than your traditional shell. Native object pipelines, .net libraries, etc. but the most important thing about it is that it's optimized for the REPL.

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adrusi 3938 days ago
In addition to AnimalMuppet's point, shell scripts make no attempt to be cross platform, so you don't get any awkward leaky abstractions when trying to interact with low-level system facilities.

The primitives in shell scripts are the primitives of the operating system. The fundamental building blocks of your language are strings and files and processes, which makes it really convenient to work with strings and files and processes, AKA the operating system.

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AndyKelley 3938 days ago
You can easily invoke platform-specific binaries from within a scripting language. You can even invoke them in a shell if you want. Check out this API: https://docs.python.org/3/library/subprocess.html#subprocess...
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yarrel 3938 days ago
If most of your scripting language code is calls to other programs and to the shell, there's a simpler way...
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adrusi 3938 days ago
Well of course you can. Scripting languages aren't useless stunted toys. The point is that if that's what most of your program is doing, you'll have a lot more success using a language where that functionality is first class.
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