[yongelee]

Concepts can indeed exist outside physical brain matter. Such as the concept of math. The idea that 1+1=2 does not need a physical human brain to exist. If humans never existed the concept of math would still exist "beyond space and time". Abstract thoughts cannot exist outside space and time for human comprehension but those same concepts do not need humans to exist.

[westoncb]

But the word 'concept' refers to something specifically human: it's a name we've given to a category of human mental activity. Particular concepts may /refer/ to things that would be there without humans—but the concept making the reference would not. The whole issue under discussion comes down to that distinction.

[DCKing]

I'd love to have some evidence that such things as 'concepts' and 'ideas' can exist independent of brains. You can't just assert it and make it so. All concepts and ideas I've ever heard of were the results of brains attempting to model or describe.

By the way, I'm not talking about physical human brains. I'm talking about any brain, which includes human brains, dolphin brains, computers, and whatever other modeling machines exist in the universe.

[goldenkey]

The thing is, the definition of a concept, is the axiom that it exists outside of human understanding. Concepts are informational objects. Anyhow, the question you really ask, is does information exist outside of conscious humanity. And it might not. It might just be an interpretation.

[DCKing]

> The thing is, the definition of a concept, is the axiom that it exists outside of human understanding.

I don't agree with that definition of a concept.

Idea = mental representation of an object, or a set of objects and their interactions.

Concept = generalization of an idea.

wherein 'mental' justifiably implicates the working of a brain. It is very much tied to what we call brain understanding. Sorry for taking this discussion to the definition of words.