[DCKing]

I'd love to have some evidence that such things as 'concepts' and 'ideas' can exist independent of brains. You can't just assert it and make it so. All concepts and ideas I've ever heard of were the results of brains attempting to model or describe.

By the way, I'm not talking about physical human brains. I'm talking about any brain, which includes human brains, dolphin brains, computers, and whatever other modeling machines exist in the universe.

[goldenkey]

The thing is, the definition of a concept, is the axiom that it exists outside of human understanding. Concepts are informational objects. Anyhow, the question you really ask, is does information exist outside of conscious humanity. And it might not. It might just be an interpretation.

[DCKing]

> The thing is, the definition of a concept, is the axiom that it exists outside of human understanding.

I don't agree with that definition of a concept.

Idea = mental representation of an object, or a set of objects and their interactions.

Concept = generalization of an idea.

wherein 'mental' justifiably implicates the working of a brain. It is very much tied to what we call brain understanding. Sorry for taking this discussion to the definition of words.