[angrybits]

I liked the article, but this is like the cultural equivalent of Not Invented Here. Does it really matter that organized Christianity believes that a guy woke up from the dead? If you want a sense of community and the rituals that go along with it, then you could absolutely join a church of your choosing and just not believe in zombie messiahs.

The wife and I have been talking about this at great length as of late. We are not wired to believe in the supernatural, but I am having a hard time coming up with reasons why that would prevent us from finding a church to go to. It does limit which churches might be accepting of us, as I will not be handling snakes or washing anyone's feet. But as churches get more and more devoid of fundamentalism (a survival maneuver), they become more and more like the thing being talked about in the fine article. Maybe it'll all meet in the middle one day.

[Nursie]

>> you could absolutely join a church of your choosing and just not believe in zombie messiahs.

The other people in your church who do believe in zombie messiahs might all get a bit hacked off when they find out though.

[angrybits]

If you join a fundamentalist cult, then yes. Lots of modern churches are non-denominational and quite relaxed. In fact, they are surprisingly similar to the entity being described in the article.

[Nursie]

I'm pretty sure a belief in the major parts of the bible are necessary, are they not? I mean, I thought the resurrection of christ was the whole point of anything describable as Christianity?

Without that, well is that 'church' ?

[orionblastar]

The whole point of Christ dying was to forgive sins.

In the old testament they would sacrifice animals and use the blood of the animals to wash away sin. People would sacrifice animals at the temple with a Priest and collect the blood to wash away their sins.

Christ was God's sacrifice to end that practice Christ's blood was shed to wash away our sins. Christ was dead for three days to build a bypass from hell into heaven. Before that it wasn't possible to reach heaven. Christ rose from the dead and promises on judgement day when he returned to raise the dead and judge them.

Islam differs on Jesus they see him as a Prophet didn't die on the cross, and converted to Islam, and there is no trinity in their religion. Jesus is not the son of God or Messiah but a Prophet instead named Isa.

Some churches are converting to Chrislam where they rewrite the Bible to be compatible with Islam. One that Christ doesn't die and isn't resurrected.

You'll find that there are many different versions of Christianity, even Atheist Christians who follow Christ's teachings but don't believe he is a God.

Many Christians became non-practicing because they got busy with their jobs or they just stopped believing. A lot of atheists used to be Christian at one point, and just didn't believe in God any more.

In modern times people worship science and technology and don't see a need for God anymore.

When you visit a church you see elderly people, and the sick and disabled, the sort of people who need God. You don't see very many of the young adults who are healthy, if there are any young people they come in with their parents.

[socceroos]

> When you visit a (fundamental) church you see elderly people, and the sick and disabled, the sort of people who need God. You don't see very many of the young adults who are healthy, if there are any young people they come in with their parents.

An observation of the fundamental church at large reflects your statement. I would delimit that statement though to say that there are pockets of thriving 'resistance', so to speak. I happen to belong to a fundamental church that bucks the trend of an ageing population.

[orionblastar]

I really cannot visit every single church in the USA.

The ones I do visit they are trying to figure out how to get young people involved with them. The Catholic church for example has a shortage of priests and they need more young priests and young volunteers. They need more young people to attend church and donate money as well.

It may be different in where you live because your church has a connection with young people. But near me in the St. Louis MO area, young people are dropping out of church to become non-practicing or atheists.

[prewett]

Generally churches have a minimum set of beliefs to be accepted as an official member. However, most churches welcome people who don't believe to be part of the community. There are limitations--non-believers usually can't be part of leadership (one of the reasons being the reason you gave)--but it's part of the Church's mission to bring to goodness of God, community included, to non-believers.

[jbarham]

> I thought the resurrection of christ was the whole point of anything describable as Christianity?

Yes: "But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith." 1 Corinthians 15:12-14

[spacehome]

I don't think it's very useful to quote the bible as a source of what Christians believe. So far as I can tell, only a tiny sliver of Christians believe the work in its entirety.

[nogridbag]

I've always assumed the reason is because only a tiny sliver of Christians have actually read the whole bible - so they probably have no idea what it says. A quick google search seems to confirm my assumption [1].

[1] http://www.christianity.com/1270946/

[angrybits]

There are lots of good sibling comments to this one, but I want to get one more point in before we all move on.

Spending an hour yielding to something larger than yourself is probably good for the soul and definitely good for the ego. You can walk into almost any church, and there you will find a quiet space where you can meditate/pray. You can find a sort of comfort in its 2000 year history, and in the myths/rituals of our past and the people who believe in them. If you are made to feel uncomfortable, then try another one or stop going altogether, there are literally zero negative consequences to it.

The point of this is that you don't have to swear an oath to little baby jesus to get a benefit from a modernized church. You can make of it what you want, they won't mind in the least.

[Nursie]

I don't believe in any larger things so I'm not sure I would find any benefit in that.

I mean, other than the whole universe I suppose, but I find the night sky in a remote location gives me the headspace I need to appreciate that.

[VLM]

"just not believe"

One popular meme you'll see is the pre-christian greco-romans didn't saw religion and belief as somewhat orthogonal. So you went to the ritual/party at the temple to hang out, show off your (purchased) social class within the temple, and do the ritual, show off to everyone else that you did the ritual, show off how well you memorized the allegorical tales, etc. Personal belief was not a terribly high priority. How much of this is "real" analysis vs Victorian era make believe is not entirely clear.

[martinpw]

I think it is a very valid option.

At my previous neighborhood mainstream church (Methodist) which I attended for a while, many attendees did not really believe in most of what was preached. For them it was mostly a social gathering, an opportunity to sing enthusiastically together (and how often do you get to do that today?), and a lot of social events (church picnics etc). As a social group it worked very well. People really would help each other out. The subject of religion rarely came up in any of these social events, and you could certainly get by without having any real belief or even much knowledge of traditional Christianity.

I've been trying to think why it worked while secular communities do not, since it was in a sense a secular community. All I can think of is that most members had been there all their lives, it was what they grew into, and it was welcoming to outsiders.

If you can handle the cognitive dissonance of listening to sermons every week that you do not really believe, I think it can be a plausible way of getting that kind of social engagement.