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by jivardo_nucci 3975 days ago
"User interface woes" is my guess.

I found USENET and associated newsgroups to be better than the WWW, especially for discussions of software. I once even promoted the use of internal newsgroups w/in a corporate environment, where a history of topics (discussions, problems, and decisions) would have IMO proven extremely useful.

But the idea never got traction: people were unwilling to participate because newsreaders were too different from the browser and they'd had enough trouble learning to navigate the WWW. Once blogs and browser-based "newsgroups" and forums began showing up, the handwriting was on the wall. In the end, the WWW browser's low bar to entry ate USENET.

I still value the treasure trove of information stored in the archives. And some people still actively participate in USENET and other newsgroups, just as some still participate in IRC (Internet Relay Chat, which also is fading). I think these are valuable tools with a lot of greybeard expertise held in reserve.

There's a sort of Gresham's law of the Internet: "The browser drives out every other interface."

2 comments

I have to mention, the D Programming language has forums that can be accessed both by a newsreader and from a web browser[1]. It is coded in a framework called Vibe.d[2] for the NNTP protocol and HTTP[3], which I think is fascinating. My only complaint is that due to the somewhat dying out of USENET for discussion reasons, and mostly it just being used for piracy (if you do a bit of research it's still just about as active as torrenting, except it's a lot more automated, used to use USENET, I rather stick to legal alternatives and avoid the paranoia), the old clients while they still work, could still use some touching up which probably wont happen.

I enjoy the idea that if all discussions in a support forum are on the NNTP protocol, I can archive them all, so I hardly have to open up a browser to search through years (decades?) of threads to see if anyone else has had the same issues as me. Imagine something like Stack Overflow all of a sudden at your finger tips without any internet access. It's a really nice thing, sometimes the internet just dies on you when you need it most.

As for IRC, people are willing to use it, if you put something useful on there (support for a project, or a community that people are interested in). If you want adoption from users who are just browsing the internet, maybe a web client / desktop client combination that makes IRC a lot less seamless to the average "I don't know" type of user.

[1]: http://forum.dlang.org/ [2]: http://vibed.org/ [3]: https://github.com/rejectedsoftware/vibenews

Yes a webforum with an NNTP gateway would be very nice. I remember vBulletin had some functionality like this and I hope Discourse will implement it. NNTP is very nice for archiving and it's distributed. Maybe we should do twitter and discussions over blockchains... when NNTP servers get out of vogue. There is a stackoverflow dump for local use by the way.
On the subject of IRC: it wasn't fading all that strongly, IMO, at least for open-source and free software discussions. Then Slack came along. Startling to see a proprietary clone of IRC (albeit with some nice extra features, namely history) come along and start taking over. See, e.g., the Clojurians Slack community.
> Then Slack came along. Startling to see a proprietary clone of IRC (albeit with some nice extra features, namely history)

Really? I wondered what all the hype about Slack was.

So, Slack is basically Colloquy, but for Windows morons and Linux weenies.

That's depressing.

It's pretty much a hosted IRC server with a decent client and a really nice, extensible bot.

They have a way better client than hangouts for OSX, about the same on android.

It's also got basic wiki type stuff, and some other features.

IRC is like USENET: It has barely evolved for decades, nobody can profit by improving the protocol as it's a commons, so it just stagnates and dies out.

Eventually all the decentralised protocols that were born in the early days of the internet will be gone.

The IRC protocol is in a different situation to USENET, because the latter has many different independent, individually federated networks of servers, whereas the latter has just one.

This means that server-side innovations can and do happen - they just need to respect the basic server-client protocol. Often the newer features are delivered through "services", which means they're in-band signalled.

Not entirely. Team control is a major part of it for companies, and history makes a huge difference to the experience. Slack servers allow the use of IRC clients, but I gave up on Colloquy almost immediately after seeing the benefits of history. For the right teams, the IRC+history combo can almost completely eliminate email use.

Also, Slack bought a company which did voice, video, and screen sharing. Since join.me went downhill, this will be a welcome addition to Slack.