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by ajuc 3972 days ago
Nitpick, I know, but: it's not powered by gravity it's powered by human muscles, so in the end - by food.
3 comments

If we're playing that game:

- Human muscles get energy from food.

- Food is or gets its energy from plants.

- Plants get energy from the Sun.

- The Sun's energy comes from gravity-forced fusion.

So gravity :)

Stars are the original GravityLight.
Good point, but it's not the end. Fusion uses up energy put there by the Big Bang :)
The Big Bang came from....gravity?
Is this the science consensus? I thought it's one of competing unconfirmed theories?
i believe it is very much the consensus.

the FLRW model of cosmology, which has made numerous confirmed predictions teaches us that the big bang is a geometric property of space-time i.e. a consequence gravity, and particularly Einstein's field equation from general relativity.

So by your logic fossil fuel is solar energy.
It is, it's just massively time-shifted.

It's interesting to put that in perspective: the pyramids were built out of solar energy by way of muscle. Skyscrapers are built out of solar energy mostly by way of diesel fuel.

Fossil fuel is a solar battery; charged in a couple hundred million years, humans will drain it in ~500.

No wonder we're seeing exponential growth with that injection of stored energy into society. The industrial revolution is a coal-powered nitro.

Checkout this explanation of fire by Richard Feynman - its a really eye opening perspective

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1pIYI5JQLE

He explains the light of a fire is just the light of the Sun, it's just been stored in the wood

By causality, it kinda is.
It is. Except for geothermal energy brought on by radioactive decay, all energy on earth originally comes from the sun. Fossil fuel is sunlight that was absorbed by plants which then either decomposed into fuel over millions of years, or were eaten by animals which later decomposed into fuel over millions of years. Our cars are powered by very old, stored sunlight.
And radioactive elements come from long dead suns, so all energy on earth originally comes from A sun.
You are now qualified to take a job as an oil company or nuclear energy lobbyist.
I don't think it's a nitpick. I think this is a very important point. Is the hypothetical fuel more expensive than food?
I think your muscles are pretty energy efficient.

The kinetic potential battery (the weight lifted against gravity) is also very efficient.

Food is very energy dense. https://what-if.xkcd.com/128/ (sandwich vs battery)

Uh, change of topic: isn't the caloric value of a food how much heat can be released by burning it (probably when it is dehydrated)? Plenty of energy stored in a sandwich, sure. But a car battery could power a small spaceheater-like thing for... a while. There's a lot of potential for heat production in a car battery (even without BURNING it). Did Mr. Munroe get this one wrong?

From Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle#Efficiency

> The efficiency of human muscle has been measured (in the context of rowing and cycling) at 18% to 26%. The efficiency is defined as the ratio of mechanical work output to the total metabolic cost, as can be calculated from oxygen consumption.

LED is much more efficient than kerosene lamp, so I guess yes.
I take your point, but the food ultimately gets its energy from the sun, which gets its energy from collapsing under gravity. I don't think there's a clear place to stop, but I'd say the name Gravity Light gets the idea across anyhow
Sun is powered by fusion. Gravity just holds it together.
The fusion persists because gravity forces hydrogen sufficiently close together.
So gravity is a catalyst, not the energy source.
its a symbiotic relationship. stars exist generally at an equilibrium point where gravity is trying to make it collapse, but the pressure produced from the constituents pushing outwards balances it out.

this is because if something is collapsing from gravity it will stop once some other force is pushing out harder.

this explains a lot of phenomena and is a key piece of understanding the modern theories of stellar phenomena, e.g. via the pauli exclusion principle, why neutron stars can form during a supernova (from the extra inward pressure combining with the gravitational collapse exceeding the degeneracy pressure of electrons in the plasma)... its also why beyond a critical mass the collapse doesn't stop at all and produces a black hole.

in any case energy is always conserved... but the ultimate place it is being extracted from to power a star is the gravitational field. everything else, e.g. the nuclear fusion, the light pressure from temperature etc. is a result of that energy being transferred into the star as it forms and continues to evolve.

By that logic my car is powered by steel, because that's what keeps the fuel-air mixture sufficiently close together.
Close, but not quite. The steel of your engine did not cause your engine to exist. But gravitational collapse of interstellar gas is the process that formed the sun. So, in that sense, gravity comes before the fusion.
It's common to say a car is powered by fuel. It's also common to say a car is powered by its engine. The latter is indeed is a device that brings fuel and air close together (and does some more important things). It's less common, but certainly not wrong, to say a car is powered by combustion.

Similarly, I think saying both 'the sun is powered by gravity', 'the sun is powered by hydrogen' and 'the sun is powered by fusion' is reasonable.