[nemo44x]

You already do pay Europe level taxes - or should I say we do. Add up what you spend on all your taxes, state and Federal, look at medicare, SS your health insurance and other fees. Look at sales tax, property tax (even if you rent it is built in) and the various "fees" we have for things.

Subtract all of this from your income and look at most of Western Europe and you'll see we pay roughly the same overall.

I agree most people don't save enough. Part of it is people buy a lot of things they don't really need but "deserve" and the other is as you said.

[refurb]

US taxes rates are much lower than Western Europe save for a few outliers.[1]

Note that this graph doesn't include VAT which can be 15%+ in the EU.

[1]http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/10/focus-4

[mikeash]

Why does that count employee social security contributions, but not employer contributions? Both ultimately come out of your paycheck. The fact that social security contributions are split is just a fiction that makes the tax rate look lower.

It also sounds like it doesn't count state and local income taxes, nor property taxes or any of the many other taxes we have the privilege of paying.

The conclusion may well be correct, but the data presented doesn't seem to be nearly complete enough to support it.

[toomuchtodo]

> Why does that count employee social security contributions, but not employer contributions? Both ultimately come out of your paycheck.

Employer contributions don't come out of your paycheck though; for the business, its a cost of doing business.

[mikeash]

It's specifically a cost of labor. The business spends $X on you as an employee, and you receive $Y. The difference between X and Y is tax. The fact that some of the difference is technically removed before the money is transferred to you, and some of it is technically removed after the money is transferred, makes no difference in the end.

[hussong]

In Germany, the employer's contribution to social security is tax-free for the employee and is a fully deductible cost for the employer.

Other benefits (company car, apartment, fuel etc.) are subject to employee's income tax beyond a certain threshold.

Edit: Taking a step back, there is simply a fundamental difference between taxes and payments to social security / different insurances.

[mikeash]

Taxes are tax deductible? True, but pointless.

I think the "fundamental difference" is key. I don't ultimately see any real difference between taking 12.4% of my pay (under $118,500) for Social Security, and taking a variable percentage of my pay for government operations in general. It's money, based on a percentage of what I earn, that goes to the government, i.e. an income tax.