[falcolas]

One AP per 5 active devices, give or take. Plus positioning them and managing their power and ensuring they do proper hand-off as you move around the office, plus...

Providing reliable wifi for multiple people with multiple devices is a hard challenge.

[jalons]

It's shocking the amount of people that don't grasp this. "It works in my home, why isn't it the same in the office." Is it misinformation? Have people become so used to things "just working" in home they don't think of the technical differences between a couple devices and a couple hundred devices?

[falcolas]

> Have people become so used to things "just working" in home they don't think of the technical differences between a couple devices and a couple hundred devices?

Until bitten by a problem, yes, that's exactly the thinking. In theory, a single AP can handle two thousand plus simultaneous connections. Most users have found this number, and don't think beyond it.

However, most APs don't have the memory to manage more than 40 or 50 keys for encrypted connections. Throw in shared bandwidth on this maxed out AP, and suddenly the (again theoretical) 1 Gb+ connection is down to less than 20 Mbps per user, or 1/5 that of a wired connection of ten years ago.

That's obviously not acceptable, so the best way to bring up the average bandwidth per user is to have fewer devices on each access point. And when each user is bringing 2-3 wifi capable devices with them everywhere they go...

The math is not very forgiving.

[coldtea]

>Have people become so used to things "just working" in home they don't think of the technical differences between a couple devices and a couple hundred devices?

Are people so used to working in inept and el-cheapo companies that they cannot fathom a company wide Wi-Fi with APs (professional, not your home router free with your cable connection) serving "a couple hundred devices"?

Is that considered IT voodoo in some companies?

Heck, your $30/night Motel 8 can manage that...

[falcolas]

Professional APs are in the $1-2 thousand dollar range, and you need one for every 5ish users. So, for a small company of 20 people (which won't have it's own IT professional), you're looking at an initial outlay of between 20 and 40 thousand dollars (IT contractors are expensive, and you have to include the Ethernet drops, rack, routers, patch panels, labor, etc), and a few grand a month for maintenance and support.

Compared to using plain Ethernet drops, the cost is hardly negligible, to the point where it isn't worth it for many companies.

My company has been going through the process of implementing this for a new office to hold around 100 people, and the amount of planning required to provide good coverage at a reasonable price has been enlightening to observe.

> Heck, your $30/night Motel 8 can manage that...

Not in my experience. At least not well enough to support bandwidth above the 100Kbps range.

[coldtea]

>One AP per 5 active devices, give or take.

Probably never heard of professional office routers. You can have several times that.

Even if working in a 100+ person company, all such companies I've been already have all the company wide wi-fi and APs the need, so I don't see why the parent's company couldn't.

As for "ensuring they do proper hand-off as you move around the office", it's much easier with APs than plugging and unplugging ethernet cables -- which was the alternative we were discussing.

[falcolas]

Try doing the math. Take your bandwidth expectations from such a connection, and divide the total bandwidth provided by an AP by that value. The answer is typically between 5 and 10; less if you're in an office building where each floor is providing their own WiFi network and you have to contend with interference.

Working with docker containers, virtual machines, streaming, and VOIP/hangouts... bandwidth becomes the main limiter to the number of users per AP, not the memory or other capabilities of that device.

> it's much easier with APs than plugging and unplugging ethernet cables

For the user, and only when the handoff actually occurs smoothly. When it goes wrong, folks have to power cycle their WiFi, or their entire machine. Compared to picking up a nearby Ethernet cable and plugging it in, this isn't that challenging usually. Of course, having to also pull out a dongle can get aggravating, but we were discussing that as well.