[apsec112]

I don't doubt her experiences - I have no trouble believing that people are more likely to ask black women if they're lost. IIRC, this kind of stereotyping is well-documented.

I do take issue with her blaming the CS107 professor for contributing to sexism. She seems to be saying that CS107 is discriminatory merely because it is difficult and many people drop out. She notes that women seem to drop out disproportionately often, but this might not be something the professor has the power to do anything about - she certainly doesn't say anything the professor does which might be part of the problem, other than just making the class hard. Watering down core classes in the name of increasing diversity doesn't help anyone.

[brohoolio]

The biggest barrier I've run into while mentoring lower income kids is time on a computer. They don't know how to type. They haven't had time to explore or play around.

It does take some privilege to have a computer. Maybe the kids who are dropping out haven't had the time. Maybe they just need a longer runway to get up to speed.

[lizdenys]

There are many informal ways study groups organize that leave various groups behind. They can form around extracurriculars, and freshmen in computer clubs tend to have significant previous exposure and some experience. Groups can form around independent living groups, which often are gendered and often have large libraries of past class notes. And, of course, social circles often bias themselves based on race.

Connecting students with upperclassmen in their majors, assigning study groups, creating additional projects or courses to help newcomers learn are all ways to counteract the negative effects of study group bias without watering down the material at all.

[quanpod]

Someone can still be a great engineer and struggle through an early class - there's plenty of reasons for this to happen and universities/colleges need to address these problems.

For example - someone who has never coded before in their life - there shouldn't be some expectation that you had a computer growing up, built a website for peers in middle school and are already an expert by the time you hit your first class. There's plenty of capable people who a) never had the advantages/wealth to support some of these things b) haven't discovered their interest and "weed out" core classes don't help with that. You may take longer to get up to the same place as someone with the advantages above, but that doesn't rule you out from being an effective engineer/computer scientist.

[DougMerritt]

Friends who majored in music theory (not performance, which is worse) tell me that you have to pass a competency test to be admitted into the school as a college freshman.

(At least, at the good schools; this may not be true at third rate schools, I wouldn't know.)

This requires that someone spent years playing an instrument, typically with lots of instruction, both of which are very hard to do with no money.

Some may get this free in high school, but the high school I went to had performance exams to get into those high school freshman classes.

There was no music at all at my junior high.

I got 6 months of instrument training in 6th grade, and that was all that public schools offered me, and I know that some people had even less than that from the schools in their area.

The point being that it's not just computers. If we want to give an equal opportunity to students, there's a tremendous amount that needs fixing that is not at all limited to computers.

[andrepd]

It definitely does need fixing, but not by simply admitting/hiring more minorities until the statistics are agreeable (easy) but by actually making those deep structural changes to enable true equality of opportunity for all (much harder).

[DougMerritt]

Yes; I really dislike adjusting statistics, because it's off-target, whether it's easy or not, but I definitely agree that opportunity is the desirable thing to equalize.

Each racial group has subsets that trend towards different desires; e.g. as a white guy I knew lots of other white guys in high school who were anti-intellectual, and thought that going to college inherently meant you were a snob.

I don't know how to change subgroup attitudes like that, but at any rate it sure would be nice to give opportunity to those who want it.

The primary way that that is hard is that it costs hard money. In my example, money for student instruments and money for music instructors (typically far more than for the instruments, although both are nontrivial).

(In my areas public libraries have been cutting hours (and days) for decades. This is part of the ridiculously negative trend that we, as a society, must stop being foolish about, like these other issues.)

Statistics, OTOH, averages together those who don't want, along with those who do want, which is clearly unfair to those who do want.

[quanpod]

Yes, there's definitely more that needs fixing. My stake in this fight is coming up with things that can happen so my industry (and really, the organizations I work for) can get great talent - and that involves training more & recruiting diverse engineers.

[DougMerritt]

I'm personally concerned about all students, but this sounds interesting:

> coming up with things that can happen...can get great talent

Do you mean things like the famous programs by Intel and Westinghouse or something else?

[shkkmo]

> The point being that it's not just computers. If we want to give an equal opportunity to students, there's a tremendous amount that needs fixing that is not at all limited to computers.

Very, very true.

[shkkmo]

> I do take issue with her blaming the CS107 professor for contributing to sexism.

If the professor doesn't have the responsibility to make the class accessible to a diverse group, who does?

> She seems to be saying that CS107 is discriminatory merely because it is difficult and many people drop out.

She does not say that. You implying that she says that or that that is the reason is BLATANTLY racist and sexist. The reason that there are not enough black women making it through that class is NOT because they are stupid or lazy.

I find your attitude offensive.

EDIT: I'll take your downvotes with pride. Care to actually indicate how I am wrong?