[mingus68040]

>"Even though liberals will deny this..."

This blanket assumption is probably why you're being down-voted. The easiest way to avoid this is by supporting your statements with as many facts as possible.

A simple google search proved that this is not at all the case, for example, and that Republicans show much stronger support of police unions.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/12/12/the-gop-and...

This selective support among Republicans suggests that you're addressing the wrong crowd.

[drzaiusapelord]

This is Chicago, we really have no republicans in power.

The downvotes are just knee-jerk stupidity because the MSM doesn't report much on union abuse and unions largely get a free pass in the US for political reasons. Democrats won't go after them as they more or less pay for Democratic campaigns.

[slantyyz]

As a non-American, I find it interesting how so many Americans (especially online commenters) refer to other Americans only as liberal/Democrat or conservative/Republican these days.

Is America that polarized? Or, are the people with more complex views (i.e., having both liberal and conservative viewpoints) just less likely to speak out?

[rosser]

Yes, and yes.

America is that polarized, and when people with more nuanced views speak up, they tend to get shouted down immediately by the "side" that sees some aspect of "the other side"'s views in the nuance, drowning them out in the noise.

Want to make a nuanced point in a discussion about gun control? You're probably from Kenya, too. Want to make a subtle distinction in a debate about investment banks, or energy policy? You must hate poor people, or the planet, or...

Net, we (or at least I) tend not to get involved in political discussions, as I'm almost invariably going to have to spend more time arguing about how I'm not actually a filthy lib'ral or whatever, than about the point I'd wanted to make in the first place, so fuck it. You guys have fun shouting yourselves hoarse and slapping yourselves on the back for how hateful you can be towards random strangers on the internet.

[zo1]

Or if you advocate more Libertarian principles/discussion, you're immediately told to "move to Somalia". Yes, I've gotten that one on HN even, IIRC.

[rosser]

I guess it depends on exactly how "Libertarian" a view one is espousing.

"Why should I have to pay for a fire department? My house isn't on fire!" Yeah, that guy needs to move to Somalia. Not so he can experience what that degree of government-free state is actually like, but rather so the rest of us don't have to put up with that kind of idiocy.

[zo1]

Just because you can't conceive up voluntary methods of community-funded fire-protection services, doesn't mean the concept is "idiotic".

I'm going to pass on getting into another Freedom discussion, seeing as you're already off to referring to certain ideas as "idiocy". Hardly the platform for a decent, logical debate on the topic.

[bcassedy]

"Or, are the people with more complex views (i.e., having both liberal and conservative viewpoints) just less likely to speak out?"

In my experience it's more that people with complex viewpoints get some combination of shouted down by zealots on either side or sick of arguing with ideologues who aren't capable of having rational discussion with an open mind.

Basically the "us against them" message has been sold the members of both parties and prevents intelligent discourse.

[Nadya]

The issue with having complex views is that minority opinion doesn't really matter in a democracy. So people gravitate towards one of two largest pieces of the pie and tie their beliefs in to match that pie.

Even if someone subscribes to say "85%" of "most liberal beliefs and ideologies" they're still a liberal/Democrat and will be held to believe 100% of the "commonplace beliefs".

This is why all Republicans are blanket-washed as religious nutcase, global warming denying bigots. While all the Liberals are caricatures of 1984's Thought Police.

[maxxxxx]

As non-american leaving here for 15 years now I think that Americans like binary options. Good/evil, democrat/republican, socialist/capitalist.

Often the media enforces that.

[rosser]

...just knee-jerk stupidity...

You aren't helping yourself.

[sixothree]

Please just stop acting like a jerk. These sorts of problems exist in many jurisdictions spanning all sorts of political boundaries.

[drzaiusapelord]

https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/list.php

All cycles, top donors EVER are dominated by unions giving to democrats. Its 100% a partisan issue.

[sixothree]

I'm not sure you're applying facts correctly. I'm sorry but I think you need to calm down in general an take a more critical approach to your ideas.

[happyscrappy]

It will be very hard to pin the problems with Chicago on Republicans.

[mingus68040]

I think you're replying to the wrong comment? drzaiusapelord was the poster who suggested that partisan views would be a barrier to reform.

In fact, I would go so far as to say that a lack of political opposition in any circumstance, regardless of the party itself, will lead to anti-democratic behavior.

The real issue is that police overwhelmingly enjoy an uncritical view by the voting public such that no politician can afford not to support them. What needs to disappear is the misplaced support for police among the public.

[digitalneal]

Are you saying Governors have no power over the cities that reside in their state?

From 1977 to 2003 Republicans were in control of Illinois executive office. 26 years in a row.

From 1972 to 1991, Jon Burge running the show as Chicago police commander.

Are you trying to say that Republican governors had no power to investigate/curtail the evil that was brewing under his leadership?

hehe.

[drzaiusapelord]

They have very little. The CPD is managed by the city which is under Democratic machine politics rule.

[lvh]

If you're downvoting, is it because of the "machine politics" expression, or because the person's point is invalid? It seems like a valid counterpoint to the statement that the CPD was not, in fact, influenced by the Republican governor.