[phorese]

"It was a tool for me," Metcalf said. "Like Mom's hot skillet; don't stick your hand on it. Like Dad's power saw; don't stick your finger in it. A gun; don't stand in front of it."

I honestly do not understand how these things are comparable. A skillet is a tool for making food. It does not hurt or kill unless used incorrectly. A power saw is a tool for shaping useful objects. It does not hurt or kill unless used incorrectly. A gun is a tool for killing. Unless it is used incorrectly, it always destroys or hurts or kills.

Would you argue the same way about being allowed to carry mustard gas? Or smallpox? That the freedom to do so is worth more than the immense hurt it is guaranteed to bring on the world?

The U.S.' obsession with firearms is utterly beyond me (I am from Germany). Just my 2 cents.

[Raurin]

The way I see it, there are two reasons a person might want a handgun. Before I begin, I'll mention that I'm in favor of heavy regulation but fall short of an actual ban in many cases.

Reason 1: "I like guns. They're fun." And that's basically the entire argument. They have a hobby, and they don't want to see that taken away from them. Sometimes it makes sense to take things away from people and sometimes it doesn't. Obviously, gun enthusiasts argue that it doesn't make sense.

Reason 2: "But the bad guys already have guns." This is actually where I am. I'd love to see new regulation and harsh penalties for violations, but it must start with criminals. Gun bans do effectively remove guns from a population and criminals would also be affected (see Australia, among other places), but I believe there would be an ugly transition period in America when the good citizens have all dutifully turned in their guns and the criminals hold on to their already illegally owned guns. I'd prefer a system that takes guns from criminals and heavily regulates (but allows) qualified citizens to own them.

And to address your other points, especially where it concerns rifles: I grew up with people who can only afford meat in their diet if they hunted it themselves. Not only is it fun, but it IS a tool. A hunting rifle costs only a few hundred dollars, but it can not only enhance social time with friends who hunt but it can also put food on the table. It's considerably less dangerous and more useful than smallpox or mustard gas, and it's not guaranteed to bring damage to people or their property.

[Turing_Machine]

"A gun is a tool for killing. Unless it is used incorrectly, it always destroys or hurts or kills."

Sorry, that's wrong to the point of absurdity. None of the guns I've owned have ever killed or hurt anyone, and I'm pretty sure I've always used them correctly.

"The U.S.' obsession with firearms is utterly beyond me"

The European obsession with government control is utterly beyond me. Governments with too much power have killed far more people than privately owned firearms ever have.

"(I am from Germany)."

[Raurin]

As much as you might be technically correct, there's no reason to antagonize the other guy, especially if the goal is to have him adopt your point of view. While he might have overstepped in his argument, phorese has a point in that guns are designed to deliver (usually destructive) kinetic energy at a distance.

Why might European governments be more restrictive? Are there any non-restrictive ones? Have there ever been? Where are they now? Might America be a different case, allowed to flourish under another set of rules?

I'm not saying you're wrong. You're not. Maybe I'm just encouraging civil discussion. Maybe I'm bored at work. Maybe both.

[Turing_Machine]

" there's no reason to antagonize the other guy,"

Sure thing. Him going off about "obsessions" and suggesting (none too subtly) that Europeans are somehow morally superior to Americans was totally non-antagonistic. Totally.

[Raurin]

And do you rise above that and present your argument's best face, or do you fight fire with fire?

What's the goal? I'll admit I'm pretty new to this forum, but one of my favorite parts is the civility of discussion that I've seen in the comments.