[anigbrowl]

I thought it was very interesting recently when FM Zarif, who seems very wise and pragmatic, discussed the nuclear negotiations as a form of diplomatic jihad, presumably to reassure the religious/political factions that that government had not gone 'soft'. As other people said, we have similar factions here in the USA.

I am curious, is awareness of Persian history a regular part of Iranian cultural life? I mean in day-to-day conversation, not just in school or a museum. Anti-Iranian people in the USA often denounce the country because it is an Islamic republic, but every Iranian person I've ever meet seems very proud of their Persian heritage and history, parallel to their religious heritage.

I'm European (living in the USA) and Iran seems culturally much closer to Europe/USA than a country like Saudi Arabia. It seems like religion is very strict in Saudia Arabia because it is the only thing that holds the country together, whereas Iranian people had a strong national identity before Islam existed. Is this accurate?

[el_zorro]

I'm wondering if there's been something lost in translation there, though. The word, in Western understanding, means holy war, but a more apt translation is "struggle", in the same connotation that one would struggle with a cigarette addiction or the like. Extremist groups have claimed the word for more violent connotations, but traditionally is more like a burden that one struggles against.

[anigbrowl]

That's why I thought it was astute of Zarif to use the term in a way that would encourage western audiences to re-evaluate the concept outside of the terrorism frame that people try to erect around it. I get the sense that jihad has a great deal in common with Kantian notions of duty.

[0xFFC]

Traditional Iranian ceremonies always was a great part of our society (at least as far as I can remember , and note that these ceremonies are not approved by Islam most of the time but people kept doing them after revolution).But nationalism became regular part in recent years.I don't think it is dominant part , as far as I see it is important part.

I should mention in recent years Iran became so much wired country in cultural sense. at one side of spectrum we have people who hate religion, at the other side we have people just like Al-Qaeda , but Shia version which are so small in compare the other part , but they have secret regime support)

But despite of regime multi-billion $ media funding and propaganda most people does believe in secularism. and this is the most serious (by far) dead end for this regime will counter in next 20 years.most of people in Iran knows that, regime needs an imaginary enemy. who is better than US, the supporter of Israel (which they believe is root of all evils).by bombing them you just gave them a reason to deceive more people.Give them internet,twitter, porn , facebook,gay tv shows, game of throne, friends tv shows and etc and you will see collapse of regime much much sooner than you can even imagine)

The distance young generation have with religion is far far than most of people outside of Iran can imagine.Despite of 5-6% of hardliners and 25-35% people who make living inside/because of government,in recent years most of people became or atheist or with some kind of their own religion. Majority of young people proud about pre-Islamic history.(personally I don't know about that area and I don't have opinion)

By their "own religion" I mean secular religion, They believe in separation of religion and government at same time they believe on Islam.(some kind of old fashion Shia, before khomeini). At the other hand , we are having (or generating) serious hard liner in other side. People who hates religious, people who hate Islam.(you can search about Shahin Najafi , A singer who sentenced to death by Mullahs like Salman Rushdie)

In Iran despite of west media propaganda you can have every Idea you want in private and most of the time government will not hurt you if you pretend you are normal person in their definition.(You can be an alcoholic , You can be gay) BUT the serious issue here is ,the cost of doing anything other than regime says in PUBLIC is so so so high (most of the time death), and because of that people are afraid of make public their own identity. Just look at the page "My Stealthy Freedom" in facebook.Just imagine the level of government aggressiveness.Taking picture without scarf becomes heroic act here(just imagine , ridiculous thing like this is punishable).Because of this regime. But about saudi arabia , I can assure you Iranian people are far far secular than people at countries like saudi arabia.I can even claim they are secular than Turkye people. Last friday was a demonstration about Israel.The city I live in with population of 2 Million.They only managed to bring ~50,000.Thats all.This is serious defeat for this regime.Because this demonstration is so important for them (all ideology of regime hinges on resistance against US and Israel and for demonstration for showing this , only 1/40 come with all the money the spent).Every Military person have to participate,most of people works for non-military part of regime should too.But that's all , 50 thousands for 2M city.(the important fact here is everybody who believe in regime politic will come to these demonstration , because these are so important for them)

The main problem here is in Iran we have a people-government spectrum , and they both are at other side. One is really aggressive and religious and the other side we have majority people with believe in freedom-secularism. The majority of ordinary and non-educated in people do not believe in religious-regime.

[anigbrowl]

Thank you so much for taking the time to explain and educate me. This is very informative and helpful.

[roymurdock]

Thank you for sharing this.

I believe there should be some sort of Laffer curve that charts the relationship between standard of living & religious extremism.

[tome]

> The city I live in with population of 2 Million.They only managed to bring ~50,000

That's 2.5%. By contrast the biggest protest in British history (against the 2003 invasion of Iraq) was around 1m people, just shy of 2% of the country. I'm afraid I can't see Al Quds days as indicative of anything other than rabid and endemic anti-Israel, anti-American and anti-Western sentiment.

[0xFFC]

One Important thing I want you to look at : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Iranian_presidential_elec...

at 2009 june 15 , 4 Million people was at demonstration against regime ( I think it is more than 4 million , but mayor of Tehran (which is hardliner itself _ Mohmmad BagherGhalibaf) mentioned it one time). Bringing 4 Million for a protest , in unsecure situation, I think it shows how much people really want reform, and how small corrupted supporter fraction really is.

[tome]

That's a very good counterpoint, thanks.

[pstuart]

But how many of those 50,000 were paid or "persuaded" to participate?

[0xFFC]

Thats is fair question.Does not all of 50,000 get paid. some of them get. some of them really deceived and believe US is evil.(that's one of main point of my main comment,which by bombing we give them a real reason , Obama policy was effective ,I can see in my real life , Obama was far effective than any other US president could have done)

For that 50,000 you (as west) should show the true nature of Iran's regime without giving them real reason (what Obama have exactly done in recent years). And remember this point , If someone get paid by regime , he have family and close friend.by a simple math you can estimate number of paid people.(maybe 5000-10000)which is reasonable amount.

UPDATE : We are taking this wrong way , this is not about number , this is about money & corruption , and what's going on under the hood. I can assure you majority of participant just want regime money.They don't care about Israel and US.most of them don't care about Iran either.They just want money.

But yes . We all should admit , Iran have Shia version of Al Qaida.(mostly government keeping them in silence, but they are major threat and resistance against reform)

At the end : the only solution for Iran (at least from my point of view) is the following support "civil society" and make people stronger , Iranian himself can handle these small fraction.Facilitate Iranian and world communication.People in Iran really have wish to integrate to world economy.

[tome]

Your reports are very encouraging and give me some hope that this deal won't turn out as badly as the one with North Korea.

[tome]

That's a fair point. I know Iranian citizens feel far more friendly to the West than many in the Middle East, but "Death to America", "Death to Israel" spoken in parliament is still very disconcerting.

[addicted]

What do you think other countries would think of the US if they judged the entire country based on what Ted Cruz and Louis Gohmert are saying?

[tome]

They'd think of America as a far more moral country than Iran. None of the rhetoric of the most abhorrent US politician gets anywhere near that of the Iranian mullahs.