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by Zuikaku 3991 days ago
Because motorcycles are the number one users of road? Because the enjoyment of a small proportion of users outweigh whatever environmental and economic costs of improving infrastructure?
4 comments

Motorcycles and bicycles have a vastly disproportionate impact on improving traffic flow. As traffic density increases, two wheelers fill the gaps left by cars, occupying effectively zero road space when traffic is completely gridlocked. Bikes also occupy very little parking space - five or six motorcycles can fit in the space of a single car.

As pvdebbe points out, motorcycles can be extremely fuel efficient. A 125cc motorcycle or scooter can realistically achieve 90-100mpg. A small motorcycle is much more economical to manufacture than a small car, with about a fifth of the embodied energy. Modern bikes are equipped with catalytic converters and have sophisticated engine management, so produce very low levels of local air pollutants.

Two wheeled vehicles have an essential role to play in solving our current transport problems.

http://www.acem.eu/images/stories/doc/pressreleases/2011/PTW...

Even if all of this is true and then some, it doesn't change the fact that there are very little motorbikes on the road. Switching to these types of roads, even if it were impossible to ride on for motorbikes might still be a net positive for the environment.
Not really. In much of Asia, which is most of the world's population, two wheelers dominate. Traditionally bicycles, which was followed by motorbikes in South and Southeast Asia and electric scooters in China.

There's a reason why they continue to dominate, and it's not just the cost of cars (I've regularly seen people riding bicycles worth more than many people's cars here in China) - it's because they're practical! Parking, repair, exercise, lack of traffic congestion, etc.

> Because motorcycles are the number one users of road?

Traction issues happen on all wheeled vehicles, motorcycles are just extremely sensitive to them. A few years back I got rear-ended (at low speed) because of pretty much the issue mentioned: fully painted crosswalk in wet conditions, the car behind just slipped on it and couldn't stop, ended up in the trunk.

Maybe they were just a terrible driver. I live in a cold U.S. State and have never slipped on Ice and RearEnded someone. I have never been in a situation where I slid down a hill and couldn't stop, mostly because I drive like you are supposed to in the Winter. Self driving cars will invalidate the need to worry about traction as they will force themselves to adjust to conditions instead of humans choosing to drive inappropriate for current weather conditions.
Or maybe they were not, and slippery roads are a significant issue.
If everyone drove 1mph do you believe there would be as many car accidents from slipping? Nope. This type of event occurs because of human misjudgment.
Yes, and the world would also be a safer place if people went 0 miles per hour and never left their houses, but both situations are pointlessly unrealistic.

We won't see a major population of self driving cars for decades. There are perhaps a dozen live models. We have millions of human driven cars now. This is the problem we solve for, not the ideal future fantasy.

I think you missed the point. I didn't give the 1mph example to imply that it should be the way it is. I used it to point that you are incorrect in saying "or maybe they were not." Accidents, mishaps, misjudgements, say what you will, but they are all just human error, not "acts of god." So you are incorrect to say they were anything but that, no matter how much you wish they were.

We also solve for the future all the time, constantly, every day. We build solar powered devices to stop global warming and pollution. Every day we work towards a "future fantasy." It is like saying we don't need roads because we have these horses we have been riding. Why build rubber wheels when our wood carriages work just fine. Why build a smaller computer when this massive datacenter works just fine.

> Maybe they were just a terrible driver. I live in a cold U.S. State and have never slipped on Ice

This wasn't winter, there was no ice, and it was low-speed urban driving. The wet crosswalk simply had close to no traction.

Are you forgetting that two-wheelers are usually a very fuel-efficient way to travel distances?

Besides, if the road markings are anything to go by, it would be terribly slippery for drivers too.

It is a problem for cycles too - at least road bikes with thin tires.

I found these figures for road bike theoretical max cornering speeds - road bike with Continental GP4000 700x213c tires, rider weight of 180 lbs., tire pressure 105lbs, clean, dry, and smooth blacktop flat surface - not cambered.

  Radius   Speed
  30 ft.   45.325mph
  20 ft.   34.569mph
  15 ft.   23.547mph
  10 ft.   18.3675mph
However I've fallen off at under 15mph when taking a bend in the rain - very big difference from 45mph!
Well, comparing wet-weather conditions with theoretical max cornering speeds is ludicrous, quite frankly. Of course there's a reasonable change of slippage at 25kmh on racing slicks.

It should be noted that it's also Rotterdam, the Netherlands we're talking about here. That doesn't mean that bureaucrats can't screw up, but if this type of road is unfit for bicycles they'll probably find out quick enough ;)

> Well, comparing wet-weather conditions with theoretical max cornering speeds is ludicrous, quite frankly.

Depending on the exact paint (I guess since I haven't had this issue over all markings) fully painted surface can be (much) worse than wet-weather for loss of traction, and those can also get wet making any corner taken beyond walking speed a mortal danger.