[bbakkd]

That doesn't make it any less of a hustle and probably why rent-to-own places still get customers. So yeah if you have to have the most expensive phones but can't afford them you will do this.

The thing is they are pretty much forcing everyone into these plans by almost doubling the old plan prices. Plus the old family plans are no longer cheaper if you don't have a smartphone and don't use data--you pay the same price for all phones.

[intopieces]

>That doesn't make it any less of a hustle.

Still not quite understanding your use of this word. How can the deal be a fraud or swindle if the terms are given up front? Let's set aside the argument about whether you think it's a good deal or not, as that is not the meaning of the word "hustle".

They're not intentionally selling you a defective product masked as a new one.

They're not signing you up for something and then changing the terms.

As far as I can tell, the word hustle is being used here to mean "trying to convince people that a product is a better deal than it is." But again, this is a matter of opinion and situation. What is a good deal for you may not be available to others because of the up front cost

And here again, the math behind the swindle claim doesn't add up. You are still paying the retail price of the phone whether you sign up for two years contract or with Next. AT&T does not lose money on either contract.

[Evolved]

intentionally selling you a defective product masked as a new one.

signing you up for something and then changing the terms. - fraud

And here again, the math behind the swindle claim doesn't add up. You are still paying the retail price of the phone whether you sign up for two years contract or with Next. AT&T does not lose money on either contract. - hustle

I've paid $175/month for 3 lines (2 are unlimited data and 1 is 2gb) for over 8 years now and I've always bought the $199 iPhone (with upgrade). A comparable plan with high-capped data (closest you can get to unlimited) runs only a little bit more ($185-190) for 3 lines. When I recently went to upgrade I was offered Next and the monthly cost wouldn't have been any cheaper for the lines yet I'd have had to pay an extra $2X.XX/month for the phone. Trying to persuade me that this is a better deal when it is not qualifies as a hustle. It isn't fraud since there's no bait and switch. They're just bullshitting.

[Evolved]

intopieces - I can't reply to your comment so I'll post my reply here. There are different terms and benefits. They're not exactly alike. What you're saying is, essentially, "The salesman tried to sell me something I don't want and that's dishonest." This is patently false and not what I said or meant. What is the hustle about this is trying to persuade me that their deal is better when it is in fact, not.

Lots of people find value in the ability to upgrade their phone without having to pay the entire ETF, choosing instead to give back their phone. That you don't find this valuable does not make it dishonest.You would have a case if the two deals (2 year contract or Next) were precisely the same. They are not. In fact, you summarily ignore the main feature of the offer to make your point! My point is that the deals are as close as they can and they were trying to A. persuade me to pay more money, B. persuade me to give up my unlimited data and C. persuade me to pay full price for my phone when I normally don't.

In addition, I've never paid an ETF as ETF means Early Termination Fee and since I clearly stated I complete the full contract then there would not be any ETF.

Summary: AT&T Next is a hustle for most of their customers.

[intopieces]

>A. persuade me to pay more money >C. persuade me to pay full price for my phone when I normally don't.

Now we've gotten to the real hustle -- you think that when you buy your phone from AT&T on contract, that you don't pay the full price of the phone. You do, actually. Remember the fee they waive if you do AT&T Next? That's the part that pays for the phone.

http://m.att.com/shopmobile/wireless/next-calculate-the-valu...

>B. persuade me to give up my unlimited data Here's where we get to your real complaint. This whole time, you've been hiding this beef behind the AT&T Next Plan. Your actual issue is that they don't offer unlimited Data anymore -- fair enough, but that's not what we're talking about here.

[Evolved]

subsidy noun sub·si·dy \ˈsəb-sə-dē, -zə-\

: money that is paid usually by a government to keep the price of a product or service low or to help a business or organization to continue to function

: a grant or gift of money: as a : a sum of money formerly granted by the British Parliament to the crown and raised by special taxation b : money granted by one state to another c : a grant by a government to a private person or company to assist an enterprise deemed advantageous to the public

Remember the fee they waive if you do AT&T Next? That's the part that pays for the phone. What about before AT&T Next? I think what you're missing is the contract price doesn't magically drop after you "pay off" the phone if it is subsidized. Therefore if it doesn't drop then it was never really increased seeing as the plan prices are the same whether you buy a phone or not (at least they are/were every time I've upgraded). That is the subsidized part that I'm talking about.

In closing, the subsidized cost of my phone was not paid back by me to AT&T as evidenced by the fact that my bill is the same whether I signed a 2 year agreement and bought a phone or not.

This whole time, you've been hiding this beef behind the AT&T Next Plan. Your actual issue is that they don't offer unlimited Data anymore -- fair enough, but that's not what we're talking about here. I haven't been hiding any beef with AT&T about unlimited data since they still grandfather both of my unlimited data lines. My beef is with them trying to hustle me into a worse plan at a higher cost. Why would I care if they offer unlimited data any more if I already have it? Unlimited data or any amount of data for that matter, Next still, in the most literal sense, costs me more money.

[intopieces]

>Trying to persuade me that this is a better deal when it is not qualifies as a hustle.

There are different terms and benefits. They're not exactly alike. What you're saying is, essentially, "The salesman tried to sell me something I don't want and that's dishonest." Well, no, not really. Lots of people find value in the ability to upgrade their phone without having to pay the entire ETF, choosing instead to give back their phone. That you don't find this valuable does not make it dishonest.

You would have a case if the two deals (2 year contract or Next) were precisely the same. They are not. In fact, you summarily ignore the main feature of the offer to make your point!

[Evolved]

It seems what AT&T are trying to do is stop losing money to subsidizing phones since other carriers (T-mobile, for example) are doing this. If this is the case then why not just discontinue the subsidization of phones at the $199, $299, etc. price points and just allow you to buy it at 0% interest if you agree to a 2-year contract. They still get their customer locked in for 2 years and they recover the full cost of the phone and the customer most likely stays loyal since they aren't feeling ripped off. Otherwise, what is keeping them from jumping ship to another carrier if the waters are muddied enough that the phone and the plan become commodities?

[intopieces]

You've pivoted to another topic. The question I asked is: what part of the AT&T Next plan qualifies as a hustle?

[Evolved]

hustle - verb (used without object), hustled, hustling.

3. to be aggressive, especially in business or other financial dealings.

4. Slang. to earn one's living by illicit or unethical means.

The hustle part of what I said has to do with the pushyness of the salespeople at AT&T and the unethical part of lying about the pricing (to me when this deal was not better for me even though perhaps it may be better for someone else).

I think this meets the prima facie definition of hustle. Hustle doesn't have to mean fraudulent but it can mean shady, unscrupulous or sneaky.

[m8urn]

Another aspect of this is that they make the regular contract plans cost more than twice what they did before, even with a non-smartphone, essentially pushing you into the Next plan.

[Evolved]

Can they really do this if you're just upgrading the phone and signing a new contract since you're not required to choose a new plan? If you were absolutely required to choose a new plan when you upgradethen how can people with unlimited data still be grandfathered in?