[aikah]

> While I am certainly sympathetic to the Greeks for the hardships they have faced and will undoubtedly face in the years to come, it is incredibly unfair to deny the Greeks' own responsibility in all this.

Nobody is denying that fact. But it seems you are forgetting that Greece made a lot of tough decisions for its people when asked by its creditors to "reform" yet it is just not sustainable, it's like asking the greeks to commit suicide.

> and essentially lying about this for years to the rest of the Eurogroup

And who do you think helped cook the books? Goldman Sachs

If a country gets out of the Euro, it will set a precedent and other countries might do that in the future. The euro is an insane experiment anyway. It cannot work. Too many structural and economical differences between euro countries. UK was smart enough not to get into that mess. It seems that the only country really profiting from this is Germany. While they are obviously not responsible for that mess , there is a lot of resentment against Germany in southern European countries and France. For these countries the Euro is just the Deutsche Mark 2.0.

[smhg]

> And who do you think helped cook the books? Goldman Sachs

Did GS get any "punishment" for this? And does this take away all guilt from Greece?

> The euro is an insane experiment anyway. It cannot work. Too many structural and economical differences between euro countries.

As someone without an economics background, I'm interested to know what these insurmountable differences are?

[pgeorgi]

> Did GS get any "punishment" for this?

I guess the punishment is that former GS executive Mario Draghi now runs the ECB.

[jeroen94704]

> you are forgetting that Greece made a lot of tough decisions for its people when asked by its creditors to "reform" yet it is just not sustainable, it's like asking the greeks to commit suicide.

No, I am not forgetting this. The Greek people are certainly suffering from the reforms. But this suffering would have happened anyway, with or without the Euro.

Greece has made such a mess of its finances, in a number of ways, that even if it had never joined the Euro, it would have gone bankrupt at some point anyway.

> The euro is an insane experiment anyway. It cannot work. Too many structural and economical differences between euro countries.

Perhaps, but I hope you're wrong :).

> It seems that the only country really profiting from this is Germany.

There is free trade between all EU countries, not just the Euro countries. It is this free trade that Germany is profiting from, not the Euro currency.

[gizmo]

> It is this free trade that Germany is profiting from, not the Euro currency.

Once again a blatant falsehood.

When economically strong and weaker countries share a currency the stronger countries benefit, because it pushes the value of their currency down. This means they can export effectively, especially to the countries who suddenly have a stronger currency with more purchasing power than they otherwise would have had.

[smhg]

> countries who suddenly have a stronger currency with more purchasing power than they otherwise would have had

Does this mean Greece (let's stick to them) was predetermined to get hit the moment they joined the Eurozone?

If yes, could you please elaborate how that wasn't visible to them? Or, if it was, what motivated them to take this road anyway?

[gizmo]

Yes, Greece was predetermined to "get hit" as you put it. There was no need for it to get this bad, though. A number of US states (e.g. Mississippi) have a similarly inferior economy compared to the union average, but the situation is stable thanks to federal fiscal policy.

I can only speculate about what motivated Greece to join the Eurozone.

My guess would be that Simitis' believed his reforms (Eksynchronismos) fundamentally transformed the Greek economy. Politicians take bold action to ensure their legacy, and it must be tempting to go down in history as the man who fixed his country's economy and led it down a road of mutual prosperity.

Perhaps he understood the economic risks, perhaps he didn't. He was certainly warned by economists. Perhaps he simply didn't believe the rest of the Eurozone could be this obstinate and cruel. It's hard to say for sure. We certainly can't take the politicians' words at face value.

[rorykoehler]

It's no surprise that Germany only briefly went into a technical recession. I definitely didn't notice any extra financial hardship or reduction in spending here in Berlin. In fact it seems everyone is going crazy buying new sports cars.