[Silhouette]

This sort of agreement is standard precisely because it gives both parties a way to protect themselves and delineate what belongs to whom.

But it doesn't. What it does is make the employer win by default, even for things that have nothing to do with the job. Given the dramatic power imbalance that almost certainly exists between employer and employee anyway, this is the wrong way around. In fact, it's such a bad idea that there is now statute law on the books in various jurisdictions -- including, as I understand it, some states in the USA -- explicitly to nullify such terms in employment contracts.

[pvg]

This is such a bad idea [...]

I'm afraid this matches neither my experience and, I'm willing to bet, the experience of just about everyone who's worked in the field in the US in the last couple of decades. Again, I know nothing about how things work in the UK. In the US, this stuff is a formality akin to all the other formalities of an employment contract, say, your tax, 401k and health insurance forms.

[vacri]

Heh, the stuff I've been screwed on the hardest is stuff where the boss or the HR officer has said "it's just (standard|a formality|the norm)", despite not encountering those things in other workplaces.

Edit: I guess the moral of the story is that something being dismissed as 'standard' is a red flag to confirm that on your own time. Maybe it is a standard, but if that's the only explanation they're using, it's not good enough to stand on it's own.

[rmc]

Here here. I was told that giving a prospective employer full medical history was "standard" despite not even having done it before. Don't believe "It's standard".

[crdoconnor]

"Just a formality" or "standard" is how 100% of abusive contractual terms are described.

The fact it is common (and, sadly, it is) does not mean it is right.

[pvg]

I'm not entirely sure of your statistics but I'd urge you to consider that 'standard' and 'just a formality' is also how very nearly 100% of things that are actually standard and a formality are also described.

[crdoconnor]

"Just a formality" = "it's meaningless"

Well, if it's meaningless you can take it out.

So suggest that.

You'll quickly find out when you suggest that, that "just a formality" usually translates as "ok, maybe it's not such a formality after all, but just sign the damn thing already please". Red flag, in other words.

Similarly, "standard" is another ridiculous term to use in contracts. There are no "standard" contractual clauses, there are only common contractual clauses, and "common" does not necessarily mean "reasonable". There are plenty of very common and highly unreasonable clauses like the one the OP complained about.

Both terms are examples of weasel words when used in the context of contracts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weasel_word

[pvg]

"Just a formality" = "it's meaningless"

I never said that. So your rephrasing my words into something I did not say and then wikipediaing me about 'weasel words' seems particularly ill-placed and insulting.

[vidarh]

He's not saying you said that. He's saying that in English, if something is "just a formality" then that is roughly equivalent to saying that it does not serve any function, and as such it should be reasonable to ask someone to take it out if they truly see it as just a formality.

Since it very often isn't actually a formality, when the other side in a contract negotiation is using phrases like "just a formality" it very often qualifies as weasel words.