[carsonbaker]

I think part of the reason base jumping is banned in Yosemite has to do with the spectacle of it. The National Park system was founded with a mission to preserve the serenity of our land, and to give its visitors an opportunity to experience solitude.

But Yosemite Village is a lot like a city today. Unless you get more than a day's hike away from the valley floor, there's no hope of finding solitude or serenity. The Merced, with all its plastic rafts and floaties, looks more like a waterpark than a river. And the campgrounds have more RVs than tents, jammed so close together you can't breathe.

When a guy in a wingsuit is whipping through the valley at 100mph, whooping and hollering, it really is incongruous with the park's mission. As is drone flying, mountain biking, snowmobiling, graffiti-art, and lots of other things that disturb nature.

What would John Muir have thought about BASE jumping?

My feeling is that the restriction should be lifted, probably because it's doing more harm than good, but I think both sides of the argument are convincing, and it's unfair to point the finger at the NPS without trying to honestly understand their motivations. There are a lot of news headlines that read something like, "Rules to Blame in Yosemite Accident", and then leave out the relevant counterpoints.

[sf_basejumper]

There are only 300-400 active wingsuit base jumpers in the world. You cannot see or hear them until their parachutes open. Canopy rides typically last 20-30s or less. There are less than 2000 base jumpers total recorded in history. When I land in the park and walk out, I sometimes ask people if they have seen anything funny just to get an idea for what my exposure is. Everyone is oblivious to anything having happened.

edit: here is an example of how much base jumpers care about the environment and preserving it http://www.kmvt.com/news/latest/Perrine-Bridge-Canyon-Clean-... Chuma has been leading these clean ups for the past few years along with many other local jumpers.

[robotresearcher]

> I think part of the reason base jumping is banned in Yosemite has to do with the spectacle of it.

From the fine article:

" “The reason we would like to discourage it is not so much because of the danger of it, but the spectacle of it,” O’Neal said during an interview at the park’s Emergency Operations Centre."

[carsonbaker]

Yes, very sorry. "Some charlatan has stolen a Ziggy and passed it off as his own!"

[cossatot]

I'm pretty sure Muir would have been a BASE jumper. Ever read that part in The Mountains of California where he climbed 100 feet up and then strapped himself to the top of a Doug fir in a huge storm just to experience the storm's fury in the canopy? He was an adventurer, and didn't view the wilderness solely as a source of tranquility on nice summer evenings.

[carsonbaker]

Wow, I didn't know that in particular. I hiked the John Muir Trail last summer and often looked into the distance at some crazy steep peak and wondered how the hell John Muir nabbed the first ascent with nothing more than a knapsack and a pair of old boots.

Maybe he would have been a BASE jumper. I don't know. What's clear is he loved nature more than anything, and I don't think he'd be too happy at the sight of Curry Village today.

[davidw]

> mountain biking

A heavy, shod horse tromping around and pooping all over the place is going to do far more trail damage than mountain bikes.

[runamok]

I wonder if that's true. It's incredible how deep chutes get dug on heavily used mountain bike trails. They might contribute more heavily to erosion because the surface area is so much smaller. Sort of how a woman in high heels has more pounds per square feet exerted compared to an elephant. Also probably depends on the terrain.

A ref: https://www.imba.com/resources/research/trail-science/enviro...

[maaku]

The damage is to the serenity enjoyed by the people hiking or horseback riding, not the trail itself.

[stickfigure]

As a hiker, I would much rather step aside for an occasional biker than deal with the huge, easily startled, smelly beasts that shit all over the trails.

[lbearl]

As a hiker I would much rather step aside for a slow moving well trained animal then dive out of the way for a mountain biker going downhill way over the posted speed limit around sharp corners.

[vacri]

I also think most people would deal with a biker than a bear :)

[davidw]

That's just everyone's preferences rather than anything objective then. Perhaps those horseback riders damage the serenity of the mountain bike riders or the hikers by crapping all over the trail. Well, their horses, I mean.

Also, remember that horses are not an indigenous species in recorded history in North America.

[mc32]

People aren't indigenous to the americas either, having introduced ourselves but a dozen or two thousand years ago.

I don't think one should consider nativity very much when deciding if something is good or not in a given context. More what the impact is, irrespective of nativity.

Never the less, bikes are even less native than horses... At least horses are organic.

[baddox]

Also, there was a point where the Earth existed but humans didn't exist. So yes, appeals to nature are always weak.

[homunculus]

It's also good to remember that deer, bear, and untold numbers of other species crap all over the trail also. That hasn't ever been an impediment to my backpacking.

[vannevar]

But there are probably an order of magnitude (or two) fewer riders than bikers.

[abakker]

Maybe, but the horse riders have boatloads of money (In my experience), attend meetings, and have historical precedent on their side. Mountain biking is still new.

Horse riders can always look back to a time when what they now do for sport used to be the only form of transit.

I come from a family of horse riders, and am a mountain biker. Really, it is completely possible to get along and share the trails. Obviously, some trails are only going to work for mountain bikes, and some are much nicer for horses (and boring for bikers).

I'd love to see horse riders required to clean up after their horses, just like dog owners clean up after their dogs. It's your pet, clean up.

[Thlom]

Horse shit is mostly grass and other plants and doesn't really smell much. It will rain away or compost to dirt much quicker than smelly dog poop. But yeah, might be an idea to shuffle it out of the trail.

[abakker]

It's still shit. When I have to avoid it while biking or walking, it interrupts the tranquility of my enjoying the trail.

On a more serious note, a major problem with animal feces on trails that are shared with bikers is the risk it poses when you run it over, and it splatters all over the place. If it gets in your mouth, or on the nozzle of your water bottle or camelback, you can get sick.

[base698]

The horseshit is awful on the trail up Half Dome. It may not smell that bad to someone who loves horses, but I assure you it smells to someone who doesn't.

[galago]

In may be purely aesthetic, with no basis, but as a hiker I hate sharing a trail with cyclists. In a weird unsubstantiated way, I feel like horses are like other hikers. I've never had a horse like, gallop by me on a trial.

[batbomb]

This is the number one reason why I hate sharing trails with cyclists. I've never seen a horse going over 6MPH, which is a light jogging speed, and they tend to go even slower downhill. Set a universal speed limit of 10mph on the trail at all times, which is a reasonable upper limit for horses and trail runners, and I don't think you'd see many cyclists.

[baddox]

That actually sounds like the beginnings of an argument for why it makes sense to officially ban BASE jumping, but to not enforce it very strongly especially when it's done in remote areas.

[heynk]

It seems like that's how the park service in Yosemite has been acting for a few years. Jumpers only jump during dusk and dawn when people aren't around, and the Rangers don't particularly go after them.

[cromulent]

As the article points out, there are many illegal jumps made there and people don't even notice. The very scale of the cliffs means that you probably wouldn't notice unless the open parachute passed through your field of vision.

[hueving]

And you don't think making it legal would drastically increase the number of jumpers?

[cromulent]

Yes I do. I think a permit system would be needed.

Controlled areas such as Kjerag in Norway and Lauterbrunnen in Switzerland have shown that it can work.

[WildUtah]

"What would John Muir have thought about BASE jumping?"

I've read John Muir's books about Yosemite. I remember they way he climbed up the unstable ice cone that forms in the winter around Horsetail fall just to stick his own head into the vortex. I remember all the unclimbed and unclimbable-looking rock faces he scrambled up without modern protection.

If John Muir knew about BASE jumping and wingsuits, he would have thought, "I need to do that right now today!"

But he would also know that it isn't compatible with what's left of the wilderness experience in Yosemite.