[axcocq]

The controller is one of the few things I would buy from Valve( I'm assuming it works stand-alone on a PC )[edit]. Unfortunately I can't even consider buying their games or operating system due to the built-in DRM and/or forcing Steam usage.

[edit]:It requires "Big Picture Mode", which in turn requires Steam to be installed. Sigh...

[ryan-allen]

Steam ain't that bad. It's better than buying titles for consoles. DRM is usually forced on you by 3rd parties, as far as I know Valve titles don't ship with DRM, but you do need to use Steam to take delivery of the game.

It's a small price to pay, and a huge convenience.

[axcocq]

It ain't bad or better than X, isn't a defense.

Steam in itself is DRM. You can't run games without it. There are very few exceptions where you can. You must be online to use it, unless you manually specify offline mode( you must be online to do this ).

It is a price I choose not to pay.

[veb]

Steam may have DRM but they implement DRM properly.

That's the difference. Most companies who implement and force DRM on their games don't do it right, and causes issues for the end user, and makes their gaming experience rather shit.

Steam makes it easy to search for games, to download them, and to play them. The Steam platform is easy, fast and it just works.

It's the same reason Netflix took off - they take out all the hassle, and give you a great experience. I don't hear people complaining that they can't watch Netflix ... without Netflix.

[axcocq]

It doesn't matter how is it implemented and what is your definition of properly.

You need to access their servers to play the game. This introduces problems or privacy, security and the right to play the bought game in the future.

You last sentence is a nonsensical. Of course you don't hear people complain they can't watch Netflix without Netflix. But they do complain you can't watch Netflix. Notice the difference?

Sorry, Netflix is not available in your country yet.

[com2kid]

> It doesn't matter how is it implemented and what is your definition of properly.

> You need to access their servers to play the game. This introduces problems or privacy, security and the right to play the bought game in the future.

In return games on Steam are available for a huge discount.

I have exchanged some of my rights in return for a highly discounted price. I don't mind that because it was a willing trade that I chose to be a part of.

[axcocq]

New games on Steam have roughly the same price that on any other platform, saying that they have a high discount is simply not true. Older games might have a discount, but that is also true for any other platform, all of them have occasional discounts. So Steam is comparable in pricing to any other platform.

What is shocking here is your willingness to give up your privacy for a marginal discount.

[eco]

> You need to access their servers to play the game.

You can just turn on Offline Mode and play your games just fine. I hear your concerns with DRM but Steam is hardly a good example of the horrors it can cause.

[note636]

You still need to access their servers.

Please note that you must connect to the Steam Network and test each of the games you would like to use in Offline Mode at least once to set up your account and configure Offline Mode on your machine.

[veb]

You don't have to access Steam's servers to play - there's a thing called "offline mode"[1]

Steam does not have region locks. If they did, people still wouldn't complain about the original point of DRM etc the people who have access to Netflix, don't complain about their DRM.

[1] https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=3160-agc...

[axcocq]

My comment you didn't read: You must be online to use it, unless you manually specify offline mode( you must be online to do this ).

Netflix was your argument, not mine, I simply disproved it.

Saying that no one(!) complains about Netflix's DRM is also pure imagination.

[mavromatis]

Steam does have region lock capability. Check steamdb.info for game based info, but basically they either lock the game to the region or lock gifting to the region for games with region locking.

[jon-wood]

That's entirely up to the developer, they're not required to use Steam's DRM, and in fact many games will run happily without Steam running once downloaded.

[madez]

Just in case you didn't know it already, there is https://www.humblebundle.com/ . It's a shop with a lot of drm-free titles and let's you download the games over http(s).

[ccoggins]

Also https://www.gog.com . Their titles are all DRM free and they regularly have some good sales.

[Paul_S]

humble indie bundle sell a lot of steam keys lately. Lately being last couple of years. Only at the very beginning did they actually care about DRM (or Linux support). GOG are the only people who do it right.

[squeaky-clean]

> Steam in itself is DRM. You can't run games without it.

Not at all true. The publisher/developer have to implement the DRM. I could put the folder for Bastion into my dropbox and share the game with you right now. You wouldn't need Steam to play it.

> You must be online to use it, unless you manually specify offline mode( you must be online to do this ).

This hasn't been the case for a few years. Offline mode now works without having to specify it beforehand.

[lectrick]

I like the fact that if I get a new machine or have multiple machines, I can install/manage the same game everywhere.

Installing over the internet via digital download is not going to go away, and until someone comes up with a decentralized DRM scheme, centralized DRM is here to stay.

[Paul_S]

Why does it have to be a choice between "awful DRM" and "more awful DRM". Why not "no DRM"? GOG has proven over the years that it's a viable business model.

[lectrick]

Be my guest and convince all of the record companies of that.

[Paul_S]

I'm voting with my wallet - don't really see much point of anything beyond that. Campaigns only work for advertising companies.

[axcocq]

I couldn't update my comment so here is the citation from Valve's site.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/353370

Requirements

    A Steam Machine or other computer capable of running Steam Big Picture Mode, in order to view, edit, save, and share Steam Controller mappings.*

Big Picture Mode requires Steam to function. http://store.steampowered.com/bigpicture

[madez]

I'm pretty sure it will also work without Steam, though you'd need other software to configure it.

[yoklov]

Not sure. We have an early version of one where I work (game dev), and to my knowledge it requires the steam DLL, and doesn't expose XInput/DirectInput bindings (I wasn't the one who added support for it, so this could be a lie, and it could have changed by now).

[pfranz]

I wouldn't be surprised if it was similar to Wacom tablets. Wacom tablets out of the box you get a generic pointing device (a mouse input). If you want the touch/tilt sensitivity you need to install their drivers. This was on Linux years ago, so my memory could be wrong or things might have changed. It actually makes it a bit confusing because you can't tell if you're getting a pointing device or a pressure sensitive output easily.

[antihero]

You're angry because the SteamMachines are built around Steam?