[PieterH]

Ah, indeed, thank you. This is encouraging and I'd like to see more of this. We need spaces for experimentation and competition, and the more libraries attack this "NoBroker" space, the better. I do wish Nano would stand on its own merits rather than the cheap "why we're better than ZeroMQ" marketing. Also I'm somewhat disappointed that Sustrik isn't using Nano in his own new projects (like libmill). That's not a great vote of confidence.

[dragonwriter]

> I do wish Nano would stand on its own merits rather than the cheap "why we're better than ZeroMQ" marketing.

IIRC, 0MQ launched with quite a lot of "why we're better than AMQP" marketing.

[PieterH]

True, and perhaps Nano was inspired by this. However look carefully and you will see that we never, ever, criticized RabbitMQ. I know the team that built it, they are friends, and we both invested crazy amounts of time in trying to keep AMQP alive. RabbitMQ is an excellent product, built with cool technology. The protocol is not so good. I designed it, I know its weaknesses. It is way too complex, and strangled by a committee that could not innovate and preferred to bully and lie its way to a "1.0" version that broke everything and delivered so little it's barely a messaging protocol, let alone "advanced".

It is fun to compare products. The competition between RabbitMQ and ZeroMQ was deliberate, useful, and good for both projects. However for a breakaway project to claim "we're the successor" is downright silly IMO. Hostile and negative, and sets a terrible tone for a young project. And if you can't achieve that, what then?

I find this rather sad, and looking at Nano's commit history, another of those entirely predictable stories. Why would you want to supercede the ZeroMQ community? It's large and successful and friendly. Why not simply make a better ZMTP engine? Make it smaller, cleaner, compatible, and then over time, improve the protocols... simple and undramatic and guaranteed success.

But no, we need drama and argument and hostility and... no matter how good the code, the outcome is that contributors don't stick, the core developer gets burnt out, and the project dies.

It happened to Crossroads, and Nano appears to be really just the same, in C. The waste in time and effort is sad. We need projects like Nano. We need space for new experiments. We need choice and competition.

I've spoken to some Nano contributors who are replacing Sustrik (who seems to have abandoned the project), and things may improve. One hopes.